A common respect of faiths

[michel]

From the thread "Are Baptists Christian ?" I asked Jonny if I could use his last post on that thread......................

Back to this discussion. Why on earth would anyone start it. First, I was really interested to see what the reaction would be when the tables were turned. Many of you have critisized the LDS members, either in silence or on the forums, for the way that we react when someone questions our faith. Some people have even started threads claiming that we are not confident in our beliefs because of the way we act. Well, it's nice to see that Baptists react the same way. I'm pretty sure that any faith would react this way if similar, ridiculous accusations were made. I was surprised at how many people jumped in who were not Baptist to vehemously defend them. Many of you are silent when others do the same to Mormons.

So why did I choose baptists? Most know that the relationship between the Mormon and Baptist church members is strained. Baptists dislike Mormons for whatever reason (I'm not going to assume anything), and Mormons dislike Baptists because of the way they are treated and constantly questioned. For example, in 1998 the Southern Baptists sent thousands of missionaries to Utah with the purpose of spreading anti-Mormon literature and "saving" the Mormons. The relationship is so bad it's almost funny. In fact, a movie (Baptists at our Barbeque) was recently made playing off the situation.

I was very saddened by that passage I marked in Red. I would hate to think that any one group should feel as if they were 'under a microscope' (so to speak).

There is though, I have noticed, a point at which there can only be a 'deadlock' between certain faiths (Simply because the two faiths are widely divergent on one or more points). This is something I have noticed particularly with the Muslims here; we have various threads which evoke quite a bit of 'heat', which, frankly, is unproductive, and upsetting to both parties. I suppose the main difference there is the view of Islam on Jesus Christ; there can be no reconcilliation between the Christians and the Muslims.

That doesn't mean that there cannot be 'respect'; we agree to disagree - no more, no less than that.

Personally, I have absolutely nothing against any one of any faith. Most certainly nothing against Baptists, or LDS, or Islamic followers. But that doesn't mean that I think we can discuss known differences; we both know that we have our 'set views'.

Another thing I have noticed is that you LDS members (and Muslims for that matter) tend to be far more 'educated' about your faiths. I can hear the shout of 'rubbish' from all the Christians here who know the Bible through and through (sorry guys, but there are Christians, and I am the first to admit it, who have no real 'foundation' of learning. That, of course means less of a chance of finding common ground but it doesn't mean we can't be friends.

The intention of this thread, I suppose, was to highlight the fact that I, for one, have absolutely nothing against anyone of any Faith; I have a good relationship (I hope) with the atheists here, I respect them, and even admire them.

Maybe the reason that we do not join in with your debates (Jonny) is because some of us realise that at some stage, we are going to come to an Impasse, and knowing that there have to be some 'solid' differences, we don't particularly want to go down that road.

I think this applies more so with the Muslims (who I see as permanently trying to engage us Christians in a 'Jesus is not God' debate); of course we will never agree. Why keep bashing our heads against the wall, hurting each other in the process ?

So, in conclusion (and I apologise for the length of this post), I want to hold my hand out in respect and in friendship with everyone on this forum. We are friends; we may have differing views, but that does not make us enemies.

Agreed ?

 

[Buttons*]

*nods*

 

[Ðanisty]

I agree with you michel. If only it were that easy to get everyone on board. Personally, I will support anyone's right to believe whatever they want even if I disagree with them. I think it's pretty obvious that Victor and I will never agree on most subjects. That doesn't mean I don't like Victor or that I think he shouldn't be Catholic. We're just going to have to butt heads and remember that this is just an internet forum and there's no reason to put so much importance on it that it bothers us after we've logged off. That's the way I look at it anyway.

 

[Bishka]

Thanks Michel. I'm sorry if I've caused any grief. It just hurts me when people tell us we aren't Christian and then act if they've done nothing wrong. *sigh* Such is life I guess. I'll get over it. Happy Sabbath day to everyone who is a Christian or who thinks Sunday is a holy day. *Random, I know*

 

[Popeyesays]

From the thread "Are Baptists Christian ?" I asked Jonny if I could use his last post on that thread......................



I was very saddened by that passage I marked in Red. I would hate to think that any one group should feel as if they were 'under a microscope' (so to speak).

There is though, I have noticed, a point at which there can only be a 'deadlock' between certain faiths (Simply because the two faiths are widely divergent on one or more points). This is something I have noticed particularly with the Muslims here; we have various threads which evoke quite a bit of 'heat', which, frankly, is unproductive, and upsetting to both parties. I suppose the main difference there is the view of Islam on Jesus Christ; there can be no reconcilliation between the Christians and the Muslims.

That doesn't mean that there cannot be 'respect'; we agree to disagree - no more, no less than that.

Personally, I have absolutely nothing against any one of any faith. Most certainly nothing against Baptists, or LDS, or Islamic followers. But that doesn't mean that I think we can discuss known differences; we both know that we have our 'set views'.

Another thing I have noticed is that you LDS members (and Muslims for that matter) tend to be far more 'educated' about your faiths. I can hear the shout of 'rubbish' from all the Christians here who know the Bible through and through (sorry guys, but there are Christians, and I am the first to admit it, who have no real 'foundation' of learning. That, of course means less of a chance of finding common ground but it doesn't mean we can't be friends.

The intention of this thread, I suppose, was to highlight the fact that I, for one, have absolutely nothing against anyone of any Faith; I have a good relationship (I hope) with the atheists here, I respect them, and even admire them.

Maybe the reason that we do not join in with your debates (Jonny) is because some of us realise that at some stage, we are going to come to an Impasse, and knowing that there have to be some 'solid' differences, we don't particularly want to go down that road.

I think this applies more so with the Muslims (who I see as permanently trying to engage us Christians in a 'Jesus is not God' debate); of course we will never agree. Why keep bashing our heads against the wall, hurting each other in the process ?

So, in conclusion (and I apologise for the length of this post), I want to hold my hand out in respect and in friendship with everyone on this forum. We are friends; we may have differing views, but that does not make us enemies.

Agreed ?

"Consort with the followers of ALL religions in the greatest amity and accord." Abdu'l Baha.

That of course does not mean that when a misunderstanding of someone's faith is stated as fact one should not set the record straight. Some will attack one faith or another because of ignorance or malice but that is usually prejudice speaking where knowledge is absent.

I feel free to explain why I do not accept the tenets of another religion, I think honesty requires that, that's not debate just an explanation of why I believe or disbelieve a particular thing.

For instance, I had a very close encounter with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints when young. From that encounter I came to a clear understanding of why I could not accept that particular faith - that is a personal opinion, based on my understanding of the information I was presented with. Change my mind if you can - its still changeable - thank God.

My key is looking at both tenets and scriptures and seeing where there can be agreement rather than discord. I will cling to agreement with dedication.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Squirt]

As long as there are Christians out there who insist on telling me that:

1) I am not a "real" Christian
2) I worship a "different Jesus" or believe in a "different God" than "real" Christians
3) I am a member of a "cult"
4) I have been brainwashed and do not really understand the teachings of my own Church...

I am going to get angry and stay angry. Go ahead and tell me that you don't accept my beliefs as true. Tell me why. Try to convince me that what you believe is better, but for crying out loud, don't even attempt to tell me what Mormons believe or what my Church teaches, because you flat out don't have a clue!

I have always, always, always been willing to treat every person on this forum with as much respect as he treats me. And I never, never, never attack anyone else's beliefs. I don't accept a lot of what some of you believe, but I don't try to tell you -- Christians, in particular -- that you're not the genuine article and I am. I have had more congenial, respectful conversations with non-Christians and even non-theists on this forum than with a handful of "bonafide, Bible-believing, real-live, saved-once-and-for-all Christians."

As long as people continue to spew forth intolerance for my beliefs, I am going to continue to tell them that I don't like it. Furthermore, I'm going to continue to call their intolerance exactly what it is. I never came here to argue. I'd rather dance than fight any day, but believe me, I do know how to fight.

 

[michel]

Thanks Michel. I'm sorry if I've caused any grief. It just hurts me when people tell us we aren't Christian and then act if they've done nothing wrong. *sigh* Such is life I guess. I'll get over it. Happy Sabbath day to everyone who is a Christian or who thinks Sunday is a holy day. *Random, I know*

I don't blame you in the least; I even empathise. I seem to remember a few raised eyebrows at Christian/wiccans

 

[joeboonda]

Yeah, I believe what I believe and I believe I am right. Another person believes what they believe and believe they are right. And many are not quite sure one way or another, etc. Main thing, I can state and debate my beliefs, and others can too, and we can still respect and love one another even if we do not agree. We should all feel free to tell what we believe to be the truth, I even wonder, say someone is in the Jim Jones 'Cult', and I knew they were gonna commit suicide in a week, would it not be my duty to at least try to warn them that they are indeed in a cult that has twisted God's Word? Or just let them go? What if it were your son or daughter? Anyway, I am not offended if people call me a false teacher or anything else because I believe in eternal security of the believer and in a pre-trib rapture, and in the Holy Bible, etc. You can say I am wrong in your opinion and try to persuade me otherwise, and i will not be angry. No one should get angry here, the only thing I don't like is when people call you or your beliefs stupid, idiotic, ignorant, etc. This is not good, but genuine concern and discussion should be accepted and appreciated even if it is not agreed with. I guess love each other and keep a thick skin is all.

 

[Bishka]

Yeah, I believe what I believe and I believe I am right. Another person believes what they believe and believe they are right. And many are not quite sure one way or another, etc. Main thing, I can state and debate my beliefs, and others can too, and we can still respect and love one another even if we do not agree. We should all feel free to tell what we believe to be the truth, I even wonder, say someone is in the Jim Jones 'Cult', and I knew they were gonna commit suicide in a week, would it not be my duty to at least try to warn them that they are indeed in a cult that has twisted God's Word? Or just let them go? What if it were your son or daughter? Anyway, I am not offended if people call me a false teacher or anything else because I believe in eternal security of the believer and in a pre-trib rapture, and in the Holy Bible, etc. You can say I am wrong in your opinion and try to persuade me otherwise, and i will not be angry. No one should get angry here, the only thing I don't like is when people call you or your beliefs stupid, idiotic, ignorant, etc. This is not good, but genuine concern and discussion should be accepted and appreciated even if it is not agreed with. I guess love each other and keep a thick skin is all.

If you tell these people they are in a cult, that will push them farther. It's like me coming up to you and saying "You're in a cult! An evil cult! And if you dont' repent your going to hell." Is that what we should do?

 

[joeboonda]

Yeah, that would probably be the wrong approach. A better approach might be to see if they believe in the Bible, and if they do, go from there. Like if they believe Jim Jones is Christ (which is what he said), then you could show them from the scripture the error and thus, by first establishing a definition of what a cult is, to see if they fall into that category. It is a work of love to be sure, and I am speaking more to Christians who may fall prey to some 'fringe' movements. Of course, I believe that anyone who has accepted Jesus as saviour, whether they get off into some wrong teaching later, as we are all just poor humans susceptible to Satan's snairs and lies, that they will still go to Heaven, just will lose some reward for not being faithful to the gospel as presented in the Bible. It is a difficult issue one must pray over and deal with each person on an individual basis. May God teach us all his truth, amen?

 

[Bishka]

Yeah, that would probably be the wrong approach. A better approach might be to see if they believe in the Bible, and if they do, go from there. Like if they believe Jim Jones is Christ (which is what he said), then you could show them from the scripture the error and thus, by first establishing a definition of what a cult is, to see if they fall into that category. It is a work of love to be sure, and I am speaking more to Christians who may fall prey to some 'fringe' movements. Of course, I believe that anyone who has accepted Jesus as saviour, whether they get off into some wrong teaching later, as we are all just poor humans susceptible to Satan's snairs and lies, that they will still go to Heaven, just will lose some reward for not being faithful to the gospel as presented in the Bible. It is a difficult issue one must pray over and deal with each person on an individual basis. May God teach us all his truth, amen?

It's not that simple, besides, my 'cult' believes in Christ, yet people say we don't. *Sigh* It's too complicated sometimes.

 

[Popeyesays]

Yeah, that would probably be the wrong approach. A better approach might be to see if they believe in the Bible, and if they do, go from there. Like if they believe Jim Jones is Christ (which is what he said), then you could show them from the scripture the error and thus, by first establishing a definition of what a cult is, to see if they fall into that category. It is a work of love to be sure, and I am speaking more to Christians who may fall prey to some 'fringe' movements. Of course, I believe that anyone who has accepted Jesus as saviour, whether they get off into some wrong teaching later, as we are all just poor humans susceptible to Satan's snairs and lies, that they will still go to Heaven, just will lose some reward for not being faithful to the gospel as presented in the Bible. It is a difficult issue one must pray over and deal with each person on an individual basis. May God teach us all his truth, amen?

You know, Joe, not one word of that shows any respect for someone else's right to CHOOSE even if they choose wrongly. That's what this life is for to excercise free will and make a choice and stand by it.

There is no toleration in it either for any opinion but your own.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Ody]

Where did the baptist question thread go anyways? did it turn into a giant flamewar or something?

 

[Squirt]

Where did the baptist question thread go anyways? did it turn into a giant flamewar or something?

It was closed for moderator review. Let's hope it's gone for good.

 

[joeboonda]

Hi Scott, sorry you feel that way. I respect all religions and persons. I can respect them and still disagree. I am at a disadvantage in that Jesus said,"I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me." So, that makes me an intolerant bigot in some folks eyes because I trust in Christ alone for my salvation. I believe there is truth and error in religion, and that we CAN discern and separate these, however it is an extremely difficult process for us all as we all come from different backgrounds and beliefs. I respect others beliefs and love others dearly, and I accept their right to believe they are right and I pray they accept my right to believe I am right, lol. Lets just don't start shooting people who believe different and I am cool with ya.

 

[DakotaGypsy]

Thanks Michel. I'm sorry if I've caused any grief. It just hurts me when people tell us we aren't Christian and then act if they've done nothing wrong. *sigh* Such is life I guess. I'll get over it. Happy Sabbath day to everyone who is a Christian or who thinks Sunday is a holy day. *Random, I know*

Blast! Becky! I must apologize for not attacking LDS equally with other Christian faiths. I know you feel left out. I'll try to think of something meaningful.

 

[jewscout]

i agree michel, what is needed is a respect of the other:clap

 

[Mister_T]

I agree michel. I personally love interacting with people of different faiths. I particually enjoy the cultural aspects. I enjoy listening to others points of view and I always try to understand where people are coming from. I don't agree with everything that others believe, but I can still disscuss and debate with that person while at the same time respecting their faith. I find that taking this approach is always a harmonious one (even though it's hard for me to do sometimes) It really opens your eyes as to what God is all about.

 

[sojourner]

Hi Scott, sorry you feel that way. I respect all religions and persons. I can respect them and still disagree. I am at a disadvantage in that Jesus said,"I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me." So, that makes me an intolerant bigot in some folks eyes because I trust in Christ alone for my salvation. I believe there is truth and error in religion, and that we CAN discern and separate these, however it is an extremely difficult process for us all as we all come from different backgrounds and beliefs. I respect others beliefs and love others dearly, and I accept their right to believe they are right and I pray they accept my right to believe I am right, lol. Lets just don't start shooting people who believe different and I am cool with ya.

The trouble arises when we begin to view our own perspective of the truth as absolute. We have to remember that all religious people are searching for truth, and the perspective of truth is a s varied as the number of individual human beings. If Jesus is the way for you, then great!!! Jesus may not be the way for someone else.

What makes me angry is when others act superior because of their faith or their church. Not to bash LDS, but I feel that it's the height of hubris for an LDS to state that they are the only church with the whole truth...even if they do believe that. It's just bad taste in a place like this to say those things. It only serves to say that "I'm superior because I have the truth and (by way of inference) you don't...

It's not just the LDS, though. Everybody gets in on the act. The atheists make superior statements about the poor religious, who have the wool pulled over their eyes. The Muslims pull the monotheism trump card out. The evangelicals beat people over the head with the "I am the way" passage. And so it goes.

We are each so tuned in to our version of the truth, that it's very difficult to not use that version of the truth as an absolute, by which we can triangulate our position in the religious milieu, and with which we can measure the veracity of other statements of truth.

We all just need to remember that everyone here is searching for truth and has something to offer.

 

[joeboonda]

Good point Sojourner, it is very difficult as I said, for everyone believes they are right. However, I do believe in abslolute truth and that it can be found. The Bible says if we search for God with all our heart we will find Him. We are to study, and rightly divide the word of God, and to prove all things, and try every spirit and hold fast to that which is good. I agree about any church organization that says they are the only way, for Christ is the only way, no church. And non believers in Christ may feel free to disagree with me, that is okay. I just say, to myself and everyone, seek for the TRUTH, there is TRUTH, and there is FALSE, even in religion, it is not all 'man-made' mumbo-jumbo, seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you, ask and it shall be given you, ask God for wisdom who gives to all men liberaly IF they ask. Forget tradition, church ceremonies, covenants, sacraments, rituals, rules, man-made laws, ideas, philosphies, and seek after God and His truth, and I believe if one searches honestly, sincerely, they will find the truth. Are you in a 'christian' organization? Put down their literature, and read the Bible on your own, study it and it alone for a while. Are you of another faith? read and compare your books and beliefs to the Bible, to what Jesus said, honestly, sincerely, and see what happens. I respect if you do that and still hold to your religion and I pray God will love and bless you in your efforts at learning of Him. The God I know is loving, patient, kind, gentle, merciful, understanding, and just. He will punish the wicked with right justice, and reward the righteous that truly seek after Him. But if one wonders if they are good enough to inherit eternal life, none of us are, that is why Jesus paid for our sins, as a free gift to everyone who would accept it. But that is just my belief. May God grant us all the wisdom and desire to seek and find the truth. Amen.