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A Christian nation?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Do America's moral values rest solely in a Christian tradition?

    IF so, are the best advocates for those values the most fundamentally strict adherents to biblical values?
     
  2. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    Moral values do not reside in nations, governments or religious traditions. Moral values reside in individuals.
     
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  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    That's a good point, Retrorich, and one that often seems to be forgotten in the rhetoric that surrounds the notion of America being a Christian nation these days. I think there can be dire consequences to forgetting it too. When people think of America as somehow endowed with moral values, then they more easily slip into thinking that America can do no wrong. That's a false and dangerous attitude to have.
     
  4. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=christian

    One of Jesus' teachings is the one where he states to pray for your enemies and those that persecute. So to be in a Christian tradition they, whomever they are, must adhere to the definition of a Christian. Since Christian is a term from the Bible and the defining rules to be one come from the Bible. Are America's values along the same moral code as the Bible? No, not at all. The USA has the Constitution which many are confusing as a higher standard than the Bible which was penned by persons choosen by God.

    Take for example the ongoing debate over "Gay" rights and same-sex marriages. Both are contrary to nature period. God didn't create Adam and Bob and then Eve and Susan and say "have at it". No, he created Adam and Eve, man and woman, and blessed them and told them to be fruitful and multiply. It's what God thinks that counts, not what the Constitution of America says, if you want to be Christian.

    Then we have the wars this so-called Christian country has perpetrated on other nations and lands. War was condoned in the Hebrew scriptures (Old Testament) only because God himself choose who was going to be defeated. Those who would not obey his rules and statutes. If you do research on those nations that fell to the sword they were doing some pretty nasty things. Any nation the Jews tried to go to war with without God's approval meant disaster for the nation of the Jews or God himself told them not to go after them. Today America bombs who they please and they don't worry about God at all. They say it's for "God and country" but they don't understand the fundamentals of what they are professing to believe in.

    The Mosaic Law covenant was replaced by the new covenant that Jesus created with his death and resurrection. So the old "eye for an eye" commandment became null and void. War is a "no no" now."Do America's moral values rest solely in a Christian tradition?"

    Well, there has been a long history of reported Christians in the history books because they, those organizations, said they were Christians, etc., but were no such item. If you do not follow the teachings of the Christ, which means knowing the Law covenant by heart, adhering to those principles and upgrading your values to what Jesus changed when he was on the scene, then you are not and never was a Christian.

    You really have to ask yourself many questions.



    • What really does God think based on the scriptures?
    • What did the messiah (Christ) change as regards to what the Mosaic Law commanded?
    • Is the USA teaching their people the values of the messiah (Christ)?
    • Am I "Christ-like"?
    "IF so, are the best advocates for those values the most fundamentally strict adherents to biblical values?"

    There's a scripture that best suits the answer to this question which God himself stated...

    God is teaching us to "benefit ourselves". Those that followed what God said in the past lived pretty well. So are Biblical values strict? Not if He is on you side they're not!

    The world wouldn't have all the sexually transmitted diseases we do now if people were following the rules set out in the Bible. Prejudice, discrimination, hate, violence, murder, etc. All products of persons not Christ-like in any way.

    The history in the Bible speaks for itself towards the favored ones that adhered to the commandments of God and Jesus. So the answer to the second question is, yes.

    the contents of this message was not copy/pasted from anywhere except what was previously posted by sunstone. this is how I truly write. have a nice day! :jiggy:
     
  5. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    t3gah: Could you condense that into a single sentence?
     
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  6. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Sunstone your last couple of posts have been freaking me out a bit.

    Stop it.

    I know...off topic.
     
  7. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Does he realise no one actually reads those copy/pasted diatribes?
     
  8. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

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    I'm not the only one? I've been blaming it on my short attention span, but my eyes have been glazing over every time I try to read that drivel.
     
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  9. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Just for the record,

    is one of the most painfully silly diatribes I've ever read.

    I would quite agree that it is a dangerous line of thinking, 'if America is a Christian nation, and Christians can do no wrong, America can do no wrong." It really feels as if some think this way, though.
     
  10. goodjewishboy

    goodjewishboy Shalom!

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    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
    -First Amendmant
     
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  11. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    well, my morality is pre-Christian America in origen. ;)
    America is a mix of peoples and thier respective moralities. I don't think any one group is responcible for the way America was, is now or will be in the future. That is the underlying beauty of America.

    wa:do
     
  12. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    I'd just to write here that I'm very uneasy when i see a coalescence of religion and partisan politics... or religion and public institutions.

    I think Jefferson, Franklin and Paine understood some of these issues but there were also those who did not.

    The United States in becoming independent from Britain politically also had to seperate itself from the Established Church whose head was and still is (at least nominally) the British monarchy.

    As a member of a minority religion (Baha'i Faith) in the United States, I think I have to live with what the majority of people are doing in society in regard to expressng their religious culture... and so largely accomodate myself to them, but still have reservations about how dominant religious views can prevail in public areas.

    - Art
     
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  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Christians have no place in politics.
     
  14. Lintu

    Lintu Active Member

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    There was a poll taken about preferred presidential religion. I believe it came down to this order of preference: Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist. I don't see why it matters what religion a person is as long as s/he doesn't try to rule with that mindset. Unfortunately, we've seen that some people cannot separate their religious beliefs from the laws that are created for all people to follow. I like JFK's famous line: "I am not the Catholic candidate for president, but a candidate for president who happens to be a Catholic."

    It also disturbed me a little that Atheism is so looked-down on. People think they're more likely to do stuff without regard for moral consequence. That makes it seem like atheists have no morals simply because they do not believe in a god to give it to them. I really don't like that logic.
     
  15. fromthe heart

    fromthe heart Well-Known Member

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    I really don't know if the U.S. can be considered a nation of one religion based on the many diverse cultures within it's borders now. Our nation doesn't seem as moral as it once was. So many have protested faith in our nation that we allowed it to become this way...so we don't 'offend' anyone.

    I also agree that christians don't need to be involved in politics just the same as NetDoc. Our place is not of this world!:)
     
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  16. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

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    Amen, amen, amen
     
  17. t3gah

    t3gah Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Jesus' example, commandment and the answer the apostles gave to the high priest. Real Christians have no place in politics and war.

    (John 6:15) 6:15 Jesus therefore perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force, to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone.

    (Acts 5:27-29) 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, [size=-1]5:28 saying, We strictly charged you not to teach in this name: and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. [size=-1]5:29 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men. [/size][/size]

    (John 15:17-19) 15:17 These things I command you, that ye may love one another. [size=-1]15:18 If the world hateth you, ye know that it hath hated me before [it hated] you. [size=-1]15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because ye are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
    [/size][/size]
     
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