A Challenge to the Theist and Atheist

[It Aint Necessarily So]

No, that reality does not exist, or no, that nothing does not exist? ...

I claim that there are things that exist, and that collectively, they comprise reality.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I claim that there are things that exist, and that collectively, they comprise reality.

Fine, I accept and understand what you mean.

 

[Prestor John]

I Believe this process prevents me judging things without understanding them first.

I'm trying to see what your ultimate goal is.

Are you judging these things because you are searching for the truth or just to satisfy your curiosity?

I only bring this up because I believe what motivates us can alter how we judge.

 

[Segev Moran]

I'm trying to see what your ultimate goal is.
Are you judging these things because you are searching for the truth or just to satisfy your curiosity?
I only bring this up because I believe what motivates us can alter how we judge.

You can ask freely. I don't really need a reason for you to ask something. Feel free to ask whatever you wish. I Promise i won't get offended

I think it is kind of a combination.
I was always very curious. About anything. Science is my main quest though.
I value knowledge more than (almost) any other thing.

I Have found my truth! I don't need another one
But my truth was built upon many many other people that are a big part of it.

No matter how "wrong" i think someone is... or how differently s/he understand really than me, I always appreciate knowing a bit more.
To tell you the truth.. I can't really understand people who avoid learning things that are "outside" of their world view.
You can learn so much from another idea, to the extent that this is what usually make you understand your ideas much much better

 

[Prestor John]

You can ask freely. I don't really need a reason for you to ask something. Feel free to ask whatever you wish. I Promise i won't get offended

I think it is kind of a combination.
I was always very curious. About anything. Science is my main quest though.
I value knowledge more than (almost) any other thing.

I Have found my truth! I don't need another one
But my truth was built upon many many other people that are a big part of it.

No matter how "wrong" i think someone is... or how differently s/he understand really than me, I always appreciate knowing a bit more.
To tell you the truth.. I can't really understand people who avoid learning things that are "outside" of their world view.
You can learn so much from another idea, to the extent that this is what usually make you understand your ideas much much better

That is a healthy approach.

What is "your truth"?

 

[Segev Moran]

That is a healthy approach.

What is "your truth"?

how do i define what is truth or not for myself?
The answer will be "to the best I know of".
Meaning I will consider truth only to something that I find highly probable.
Many times, BTW, I am mistaken
What I learn from this mistake is to better "study" before making a claim of true.

At times, my "selfishness", will make me decides things that are in contradiction to my knowledge... and at times, there is no choice but making a decision without having the required knowledge.

But I would say my "truth" is believe only things you can prove their truthiness (at least to a "high probability")

 

[Prestor John]

how do i define what is truth or not for myself?
The answer will be "to the best I know of".
Meaning I will consider truth only to something that I find highly probable.
Many times, BTW, I am mistaken
What I learn from this mistake is to better "study" before making a claim of true.

At times, my "selfishness", will make me decides things that are in contradiction to my knowledge... and at times, there is no choice but making a decision without having the required knowledge.

But I would say my "truth" is believe only things you can prove their truthiness (at least to a "high probability")

How do you obtain a "high probability"? Is it just studying all different beliefs and walks of life and then going for what you feel is most appropriate?

 

[Segev Moran]

How do you obtain a "high probability"? Is it just studying all different beliefs and walks of life and then going for what you feel is most appropriate?

It is not a question of appropriate. It is a question of providing a "solution" to a "problem".
I Don't mean problem in the sense of something that is malfunctioning, rather a challenge or situation that needs to be solved / handled.
In the issue of beliefs, it works just the same for me.

Until today, none of the religions provided any explanation to our (humans) reality and specifically for me.
For some people, however, I am aware that their religion provides them with the solution they were looking for.

in my opinion, religious people usually try and find solutions to the wrong questions.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

in my opinion, religious people usually try and find solutions to the wrong questions.

Briefly, what are the wrong questions that religious folk try and find solutions to?

 

[Segev Moran]

Briefly, what are the wrong questions that religious folk try and find solutions to?

Anything relating to Objectiveness.

Objective moral,
Objective good,
Objective reasoning and such.

Also, there is a reversed type pf thinking to theist (At least those I usually meet):


I Would say the one core difference between secular and faith based beliefs, is this difference.

Example:

Theism: Trees are here so we have Oxygen - Driven by the purpose.
Secular: We have Oxygen because there are trees. - Driven by cause.

While in reality, excluding man-made tools, nothing really have a purpose beyond what we subjectively give it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Anything relating to Objectiveness.

Objective moral,
Objective good,
Objective reasoning and such.

Also, there is a reversed type pf thinking to theist (At least those I usually meet):


I Would say the one core difference between secular and faith based beliefs, is this difference.

Example:

Theism: Trees are here so we have Oxygen - Driven by the purpose.
Secular: We have Oxygen because there are trees. - Driven by cause.

While in reality, excluding man-made tools, nothing really have a purpose beyond what we subjectively give it.

A sincerely religious person should understand the difference between the needs of the body wrt well being in this temporary physical life, and the needs of the soul wrt to spiritual eternal life. As such, their minds will inquire along both lines as relevant and appropriate, no contradiction. But I agree that many religious folk may not understand this at their present state and confuse the two, and thus can properly be considered still 'lost souls'. But then, all self professing atheists are 'lost' at present too.

How can you prove that nothing in reality has a purpose beyond human subjectivity?