A challenge for creationists who love to argue Darwin`s theory.

[Women_Of_Reason]

Instead of proudly displaying your ignorance on this topic:

I challenge you to read the God damned book.

The Origin of Species - Wikisource

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

No volunteers?

 

[darkendless]

Without Darwin's theory we're forced to "believe." Darwin is a pioneer of our origins and should be recognised as such.
Creationists are too quick to discount his work when what is their theory? God? Need i say more.

 

[painted wolf]

I would actually suggest a more modern discussion. Darwin's work is seminal but its a bear to read and doesn't cover genetics.

I highly suggest "Endless Forms Most Beautiful" by Sean B. Caroll.
Sean B. Carroll · Books · Endless Forms Most Beautiful

He discusses how genes control development and how changes to those genes drive evolution of new species and new genera. How the first organism passed on its genetic fingerprints to all life on the planet.

Indeed I suggest it to everyone who is remotely interested in evolution. Its exceptionally well written and explains the subject spectacularly.

wa:do

 

[life.is.ravishing]

I have read parts of The Origin of Species. It's interesting. I used to be a big believer of intelligent design, but just recently became a "full fledged creationist." haha.

I can't really say that Darwin's book proves anything. It presents many interesting theories, which are definitely worth of consideration, but in the end, I can't see them as being true.

While you're offering this challenge for creationists to read The Origin of Species, I was wondering, have you ever read the Bible? It seems as if the challenge could go both ways. Only fair.

 

[painted wolf]

Darwin was just the groundwork... Evolution may start with him but it doesn't end there.

Far from it.

In fact it is the 150 years of experimentation and evidence that makes some (but not all) of Darwin's ideas 'true'.
Darwin was right about many things and on many things he wasn't... he was after all limited by his times.

Modern Evolution has progressed far beyond Darwin.

and yes, I have read the Bible.

wa:do

 

[fantome profane]

I have read parts of The Origin of Species.....


While you're offering this challenge for creationists to read The Origin of Species, I was wondering, have you ever read the Bible? It seems as if the challenge could go both ways. Only fair.

Are you challenging us to read all of it or only parts of it. I have read all of it, cover to cover more than once. Now go finish reading Origins. Only fair.

I would actually suggest a more modern discussion. Darwin's work is seminal but its a bear to read and doesn't cover genetics.

I highly suggest "Endless Forms Most Beautiful" by Sean B. Caroll.
Sean B. Carroll · Books · Endless Forms Most Beautiful

He discusses how genes control development and how changes to those genes drive evolution of new species and new genera. How the first organism passed on its genetic fingerprints to all life on the planet.

Indeed I suggest it to everyone who is remotely interested in evolution. Its exceptionally well written and explains the subject spectacularly.

wa:do

Incidentally I just started reading this one. Very interesting so far. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[life.is.ravishing]

Are you challenging us to read all of it or only parts of it. I have read all of it, cover to cover more than once. Now go finish reading Origins. Only fair.

Yes, I'll have to do that. Quite fair.

Modern Evolution has progressed far beyond Darwin.

Of this I am quite aware. As I said, I believed in it for quite some time. It is all very interesting and very believable. I would try to explain to you why I stopped believing in it, but in the end we all know that we will keep believing what we believe because of the fundamental difference in our belief of God. And of that, there is usually no compromise. So I'll skip the big faith explanations, as I'm sure you guys get those all the time and get rather sick of them.

 

[Caladan]

I have read parts of The Origin of Species. It's interesting. I used to be a big believer of intelligent design, but just recently became a "full fledged creationist." haha.

I can't really say that Darwin's book proves anything. It presents many interesting theories, which are definitely worth of consideration, but in the end, I can't see them as being true.

While you're offering this challenge for creationists to read The Origin of Species, I was wondering, have you ever read the Bible? It seems as if the challenge could go both ways. Only fair.

I have studied the bible for 12 years in school, and now im also studying the scriptures in the university as part of my overall studies.
It is not a science book by any stretch. parables of folk wisdom? yes, a treasury of words? yes. but its not a source for scientific information.
we are in the 21 century, we need to let our children read popular science in order to give them the proper background to grow into the future of humanity.

 

[life.is.ravishing]

I have studied the bible for 12 years in school, and now im also studying the scriptures in the university as part of my overall studies.
It is not a science book by any stretch. parables of folk wisdom? yes, a treasury of words? yes. but its not a source for scientific information.
we are in the 21 century, we need to let our children read popular science in order to give them the proper background to grow into the future of humanity.

It's great we can have these discussions like this, isn't it? It's really interesting to hear directly from other beliefs. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Anyway, no, the Bible is not a scientific book. It was never meant to be, nor should it ever be interpreted as one. This is why it does not contain anything on atomic theory or the like. However, it does contain explanations for events that some believe happened "scientifically." While creating the world and mankind and everything in between was "scientific" on God's part I suppose, it was really more of a miracle. (Not that debating this is necessary, because I know you don't believe that.)

By all means have children read Popular Science. But have them read Psalms too. Have them read The Origin of Species. And have them read the Book of Mormon. In fact, let them read anything and everything concerning creationism and evolution. Because in the end, it's about our own decisions. And our own faith. And we should all make informed decisions.

 

[fantome profane]

By all means have children read Popular Science. But have them read Psalms too. Have them read The Origin of Species. And have them read the Book of Mormon.

And should they also read the Dhammapada? The Bhagavad Gita? The Tao Te Ching? Or the collected works of Bertrand Russell?

 

[Caladan]

It's great we can have these discussions like this, isn't it? It's really interesting to hear directly from other beliefs. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

Anyway, no, the Bible is not a scientific book. It was never meant to be, nor should it ever be interpreted as one. This is why it does not contain anything on atomic theory or the like. However, it does contain explanations for events that some believe happened "scientifically." While creating the world and mankind and everything in between was "scientific" on God's part I suppose, it was really more of a miracle. (Not that debating this is necessary, because I know you don't believe that.)

By all means have children read Popular Science. But have them read Psalms too. Have them read The Origin of Species. And have them read the Book of Mormon. In fact, let them read anything and everything concerning creationism and evolution. Because in the end, it's about our own decisions. And our own faith. And we should all make informed decisions.

LIR, what scientific events does the bible explain, if you will? its a national memory, and an ethos to the Jewish people, and an inheritance for billions other around the world. and that is quite a seat of honor for the scriptures, lets not make them into something they are not, lets value the scriptures for their ACTUAL value.

I can assure you, that if and when I have children, I will introduce them to the scriptures of my people, and when they mature I will hope they will take the time to be introduced to other world scriptures and beliefs, however I will encourage them to be science friendly, and I will prevent their fragile minds in their younger days from being exposed to harmful and superstitious perspectives. after all I want my children to be happy, and be successful individuals.

 

[life.is.ravishing]

And should they also read the Dhammapada? The Bhagavad Gita? The Tao Te Ching? Or the collected works of Bertrand Russell?

Hahaha, the more the merrier.

LIR, what scientific events does the bible explain, if you will?

By scientific events, I was referring to the creation of the world, and of man. Really they're more of..., well, scientific parallels I guess, if you will. Such that while some believe in the Big Bang Theory, the Bible offeres alternative explanations for these scientific events.

 

[Caladan]

The big bang theory is a scientific effort to learn more about the universe.
The biblical creation and origin stories offer no concrete alternative to this.

 

[life.is.ravishing]

The big bang theory is a scientific effort to learn more about the universe.
The biblical creation and origin stories offer no concrete alternative to this.

Concrete? No. I never said it was. But it is an alternative to the "scientific" explanation, which is not concrete in itself either.

 

[Caladan]

If we had all the answers to the mysteries of the universe and the facts of life, we wouldnt need to run theories like the big bang theory, and no I'm sorry but the biblical accounts offer no alternative, they offer an escape. they offer an alternative in the same sense of believing that the world was created from the slain body of Tiamat, the Babylonian (and earlier) personification of primordial chaos.

 

[Caladan]

and by the way if you are familiar with world mythologies and ancient cosmogonies, you may know that Tiamat may very well be the predecessor of the Hebrew word Tehom, found in the book of Genesis in the Hebrew creation story, which in part is derived from Mesopotamian myths.

 

[life.is.ravishing]

If we had all the answers to the mysteries of the universe and the facts of life, we wouldnt need to run theories like the big bang theory, and no I'm sorry but the biblical accounts offer no alternative, they offer an escape. they offer an alternative in the same sense of believing that the world was created from the slain body of Tiamat, the Babylonian (and earlier) personification of primordial chaos.

And now we have reached the point where there is no more I can say. Because now we are just back to debating the actual existence of God, and nothing will come of that.

It was good to talk to you though. Thank you for offering insight into some of the atheist beliefs. It has been interesting.

 

[fantome profane]

Hahaha, the more the merrier.

I was hoping you would say that. Welcome to the fantastic world of Frubals.

 

[Caladan]

And now we have reached the point where there is no more I can say. Because now we are just back to debating the actual existence of God, and nothing will come of that.

It was good to talk to you though. Thank you for offering insight into some of the atheist beliefs. It has been interesting.

Fair enough. although I'm enjoying myself