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"A California Church Was Still Meeting, So the Landlord Changed the Locks"

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Along with nothing but simple statements (such as there is no standard for pastors) makes one wonder if you really know what you are talking about.
Legally, the only thing required in the USA to be a pastor is to be put on the rolls of a qualifying church.


That some churches require a bunch of crap before they put you on their roll does not remove the fact that there are churches who will put you on the rolls just by signing up online.

So the fact of the matter is that there is no legal standard for pastors.

You know I have been ordained 23 times?
I got them for no other reason to show my Brother-in-law that he was just as wrong as you are about the "standards" for being ordained.
My wife has seven.
My daughter has at least 13.


And before you start whining about how they are not "legit", they are all legal eagle as I have used them to legally marry couples in my neck of the woods.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Legally, the only thing required in the USA to be a pastor is to be put on the rolls of a qualifying church.


That some churches require a bunch of crap before they put you on their roll does not remove the fact that there are churches who will put you on the rolls just by signing up online.

So the fact of the matter is that there is no legal standard for pastors.

You know I have been ordained 23 times?
I got them for no other reason to show my Brother-in-law that he was just as wrong as you are about the "standards" for being ordained.
My wife has seven.
My daughter has at least 13.


And before you start whining about how they are not "legit", they are all legal eagle as I have used them to legally marry couples in my neck of the woods.

1) Just because you got ordained didn't make you a pastor.
2) You missed the post where a doctor basically said that grading system in the medical field is baloney. (I suppose you can get a "D" in surgery and still be a doctor.) Can you imagine a surgeon operating on you with a "D" on his capacity?
3) You missed the post where thousands of doctors are still practicing when they shouldn't. Not to mention
Doctors Charged with Medical Malpractice Are Allowed to Work in New York | Gattuso & Ciotoli, PLLC
4) There is a standard for being a pastor.

1 tim 3:2 Here are the qualifications to look for in an overseer: a spotless reputation, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, sensible, respectable, welcoming to strangers (allowing them into his home), and gifted to teach. 3 Disqualify any drunk or violent man. Look for a gentle man; no belligerent fellow can follow this calling. And he should be free from money lust.

Just like you should check the malpractice report card on a doctor before going to him... likewise you should check the report card on the person who is ordained. You, therefore, would not qualify. ;)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Legally, the only thing required in the USA to be a pastor is to be put on the rolls of a qualifying church.


That some churches require a bunch of crap before they put you on their roll does not remove the fact that there are churches who will put you on the rolls just by signing up online.

So the fact of the matter is that there is no legal standard for pastors.

You know I have been ordained 23 times?
I got them for no other reason to show my Brother-in-law that he was just as wrong as you are about the "standards" for being ordained.
My wife has seven.
My daughter has at least 13.


And before you start whining about how they are not "legit", they are all legal eagle as I have used them to legally marry couples in my neck of the woods.

1) Just because you got ordained didn't make you a pastor.
2) You missed the post where a doctor basically said that grading system in the medical field is baloney. (I suppose you can get a "D" in surgery and still be a doctor.)
3) You missed the post where thousands of doctors are still practicing when they shouldn't. Not to mention
Doctors Charged with Medical Malpractice Are Allowed to Work in New York | Gattuso & Ciotoli, PLLC
4) There is a standard for being a pastor.

1 tim 3:2 Here are the qualifications to look for in an overseer: a spotless reputation, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, sensible, respectable, welcoming to strangers (allowing them into his home), and gifted to teach. 3 Disqualify any drunk or violent man. Look for a gentle man; no belligerent fellow can follow this calling. And he should be free from money lust.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
1) Just because you got ordained didn't make you a pastor.
2) You missed the post where a doctor basically said that grading system in the medical field is baloney. (I suppose you can get a "D" in surgery and still be a doctor.) Can you imagine a surgeon operating on you with a "D" on his capacity?
3) You missed the post where thousands of doctors are still practicing when they shouldn't. Not to mention
Doctors Charged with Medical Malpractice Are Allowed to Work in New York | Gattuso & Ciotoli, PLLC
4) There is a standard for being a pastor.

1 tim 3:2 Here are the qualifications to look for in an overseer: a spotless reputation, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, sensible, respectable, welcoming to strangers (allowing them into his home), and gifted to teach. 3 Disqualify any drunk or violent man. Look for a gentle man; no belligerent fellow can follow this calling. And he should be free from money lust.

Just like you should check the malpractice report card on a doctor before going to him... likewise you should check the report card on the person who is ordained. You, therefore, would not qualify. ;)
Yawn.
All you are doing is counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

I am legally a Pastor.
And a Minister
And a number of other religious leader titles..
I can legally put any or all of them with my name.

that you dislike that particular fact has absolutely no bearing on it being a fact.
See, your personal feelings are not even being consulted when it comes to my legal ordinations.

Thus the reason I dismiss your personal feelings right along with your count the hits and ignore the misses "argument" you present here.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
1) Just because you got ordained didn't make you a pastor.
The US legal system states otherwise.
Your personal feeling are completely irrelevant.

2) You missed the post where a doctor basically said that grading system in the medical field is baloney. (I suppose you can get a "D" in surgery and still be a doctor.)
And?
Just like there are bad religious leaders, there are bad doctors and nurses and CNAs...

3) You missed the post where thousands of doctors are still practicing when they shouldn't. Not to mention
Doctors Charged with Medical Malpractice Are Allowed to Work in New York | Gattuso & Ciotoli, PLLC
Sadly for you, you are not the one who gets to make that legal dicision.
So once again we are dealing not with the law, but your personal feelings.

4) There is a standard for being a pastor.
Yes, there is.
But there is only ONE legsl "standard" and that is to be put on a church roll.
Your dislike of that fact has no bearing on the legalities of it.

1 tim 3:2 Here are the qualifications to look for in an overseer: a spotless reputation, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, sensible, respectable, welcoming to strangers (allowing them into his home), and gifted to teach. 3 Disqualify any drunk or violent man. Look for a gentle man; no belligerent fellow can follow this calling. And he should be free from money lust.
This also has absolutely no legal standing as who can and can not become legally ordained.
So since all you have presented is a count the hits and ignore the misses "argument" in favour of your personal feelings, I see no reason take your "argument" seriously beyond your feelings.

Perhaps you can come up with an argument that does not also equally apply to your pastors once your personal feelings are removed?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I don't know how true this is. I didn't even hear the radio news report.

But according to my mother-in-law, who is very Christian and really hates not going to church multiple times a week, listens to Christian radio all day. She said that the governor of Indiana announced that the police would be visiting churches on Easter. They'd be handing out $1000 fines to any group found in violation of guidelines.
Tom
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I don't know how true this is. I didn't even hear the radio news report.

But according to my mother-in-law, who is very Christian and really hates not going to church multiple times a week, listens to Christian radio all day. She said that the governor of Indiana announced that the police would be visiting churches on Easter. They'd be handing out $1000 fines to any group found in violation of guidelines.
Tom
If Holcomb made such an announcement the media is not reporting on it.
At all.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
If Holcomb made such an announcement the media is not reporting on it.
At all.
I heavily qualified my post because my mother-in-law isn't the most reliable source of information. It's entirely possible this is a county thing. Or even just a threat from the mayor that won't actually amount to anything.
She's already resigned to no Easter service.

So am I. Easter is absolutely my favorite mass. Especially "Easter Vigil" mass. It's a five hour extravaganza of Bible reading and songs and baptisms and such, celebrating Hope. Candles, processions, incense, flowers, it just goes on and on. Then a big community dinner in the fellowship hall.

It's all about Hope and Community. Totally excellent. I'll miss it very much.

Tom
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I heavily qualified my post because my mother-in-law isn't the most reliable source of information. It's entirely possible this is a county thing. Or even just a threat from the mayor that won't actually amount to anything.
She's already resigned to no Easter service.

So am I. Easter is absolutely my favorite mass. Especially "Easter Vigil" mass. It's a five hour extravaganza of Bible reading and songs and baptisms and such, celebrating Hope. Candles, processions, incense, flowers, it just goes on and on. Then a big community dinner in the fellowship hall.

It's all about Hope and Community. Totally excellent. I'll miss it very much.

Tom
The claim sparked my curiosity enough to see if I can find anything about it.
I was not "challenging" the claim.
I apologize if it seemed I was
I was merely revealing the results of my search.
I did find this though:

 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
The claim sparked my curiosity enough to see if I can find anything about it.
I was not "challenging" the claim.
I apologize if it seemed I was
I was merely revealing the results of my search.
I did find this though:

I followed your link. Made sense. That doesn't always happen in Indiana.

Just now, I heard a radio report on a local, secular, radio station. Way more like your link.

I'd point out to her that whatever she thinks her station said, it's not true.
But we've been trapped together for weeks already and it's nowhere near over. I'll just keep my mouth shut. Day after tomorrow I'll start preparing a tiny little Easter dinner. What else can ya do:shrug:

Tom
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yawn.
All you are doing is counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

I am legally a Pastor.
And a Minister
And a number of other religious leader titles..
I can legally put any or all of them with my name.

that you dislike that particular fact has absolutely no bearing on it being a fact.
See, your personal feelings are not even being consulted when it comes to my legal ordinations.

Thus the reason I dismiss your personal feelings right along with your count the hits and ignore the misses "argument" you present here.

And you can be legally a doctor and still be a horrible doctor... so, what was your point?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The US legal system states otherwise.
Your personal feeling are completely irrelevant.


And?
Just like there are bad religious leaders, there are bad doctors and nurses and CNAs...

seems circular.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
And you can be legally a doctor and still be a horrible doctor... so, what was your point?
You can be a horrible doctor, but you have to have serious credentials or you aren't a legal doctor. No such legal standards exist for pastors.

And if a doctor seriously botches things, they get hit with huge lawsuits. Pastors aren't at any such risk for malpractice, or there'd be a lot less of them.

It's just not a valid comparison, no matter how much you believe.
Tom
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You can be a horrible doctor, but you have to have serious credentials or you aren't a legal doctor. No such legal standards exist for pastors.

And if a doctor seriously botches things, they get hit with huge lawsuits. Pastors aren't at any such risk for malpractice, or there'd be a lot less of them.

It's just not a valid comparison, no matter how much you believe.
Tom
You have thousands of doctors with malpractice lawsuits but it doesn't stop them. Pastors are sued and also have malpractice insurance like doctors.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
You have thousands of doctors with malpractice lawsuits but it doesn't stop them. Pastors are sued and also have malpractice insurance like doctors.
Yes.
And that the standards for becoming a doctor are much higher than those to become a pastor does not change because there are bad doctors.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes.
And that the standards for becoming a doctor are much higher than those to become a pastor does not change because there are bad doctors.

Yes... but our "standard" vs your "standard" are different. We go by God's standard. ;) So you ain't a pastor :D
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Yes... but our "standard" vs your "standard" are different. We go by God's standard. ;) So you ain't a pastor :D
I already flat out stated that different churches have different requirements to be met in order to be listed on their rolls.

Unfortunately for them, the law does not give a crickets fart what requirements each church requires to be put on the rolls.

So it seems to me that even "Gods Standards" are not as standardized as you would like to think.

No idea where you got the whole "your standards" crap from.
My standards are not even in play here.
I merely met and or exceeded the requirements for the 23 churches who added me to their rolls.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I already flat out stated that different churches have different requirements to be met in order to be listed on their rolls.
And if the pastor him/herself starts the church...?
That happens a lot around here.

"Nondenominational" churches are a growth industry in the USA.
Tom
 
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