A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[robocop (actually)]

Let me just say this. My function is that science should be non mystical and religion too. Either there is an explanation or there isn't. My function is to find one golden explanation that satisfies everyone or admit defeat.

The animals on the ark could have had recessive genes in all their genes; God could handle that. Then they diversify as though there was no bottleneck.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Moses parted the Red Sea. Was that, too, a normal weather pattern? God can do anything, including make it rain harder than usual.

Yes, and we have searched for evidence for the parting of the red sea (an entire army drowned would have left evidence) and the only evidence found to confirm this fanciful tale was planted by a dishonest and disengenuous "biblical archaologist" who planted it. It was a wheel of a chariot -- identified by "real" experts as Roman! So to prove one myth that can't be proven, you propose another myth which also can't be proven. Quite a house of cards there.

Take COVID, for example. Revelation 15 says that God will punish us for attacking Iraq and send seven plagues (including COVID apparently).

Very colorful interpretation of that book.

There are some easy answers for what you've proposed here, and some more challenging apologetics, but the answers are there. There seems to be evidence on both sides, for and against the Flood and Creation stories, but I promise you God is able to instruct us.

I know many of them because I was once an heavily indoctrinated Christian. None of them hold up to scrutiny by those who know what they are doing when they scrutinize them. Apologists and pastors are not scientists and they do the Christian religion a tremendous disservice when they try to be.

Outside of the 5 books of Moses, Time magazine said it was historical.

Oh really? Link? Because I found a link from TIME where the headline clearly calls flood myths ... well ... myths.

Before Noah: Myths of the Flood Are Far Older Than the Bible

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We don't know everything the DNA does. We don't know for sure that genetic drift lays out life through time.

That doesn't matter at all to the point of identifying genetic bottlenecks.

Do you even know what genetic bottlenecks are?
Because your replies tell me that you don't.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My function is to find one golden explanation that satisfies everyone or admit defeat.

That's not going to work if one side values evidence while the other just wants to dogmatically stick to their ancient faith based beliefs.

The animals on the ark could have had recessive genes in all their genes; God could handle that. Then they diversify as though there was no bottleneck.

Any explanation which requires invoking god-magic to "explain the facts away" just to make it work with some a priori believed ancient myth, is not going to work either.

When beliefs don't match the facts, it's not the facts that require revision.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Yes, and we have searched for evidence for the parting of the red sea (an entire army drowned would have left evidence) and the only evidence found to confirm this fanciful tale was planted by a dishonest and disengenuous "biblical archaologist" who planted it. It was a wheel of a chariot -- identified by "real" experts as Roman! So to prove one myth that can't be proven, you propose another myth which also can't be proven. Quite a house of cards there.



Very colorful interpretation of that book.



I know many of them because I was once an heavily indoctrinated Christian. None of them hold up to scrutiny by those who know what they are doing when they scrutinize them. Apologists and pastors are not scientists and they do the Christian religion a tremendous disservice when they try to be.



Oh really? Link? Because I found a link from TIME where the headline clearly calls flood myths ... well ... myths.

Before Noah: Myths of the Flood Are Far Older Than the Bible

Right that's what I said. Time magazine couldn't find evidence for the 5 books of moses, including the flood, but afterward. It found the rest believable.

 

[robocop (actually)]

That's not going to work if one side values evidence while the other just wants to dogmatically stick to their ancient faith based beliefs.



Any explanation which requires invoking god-magic to "explain the facts away" just to make it work with some a priori believed ancient myth, is not going to work either.

When beliefs don't match the facts, it's not the facts that require revision.

Sorry. Without God, there is no Bible, or maybe Aliens.

But another thing... feeding the animals... God could have dropped food from the sky like in the exodus.

 

[robocop (actually)]

The Universe could be infinite but generated by a formula so it wouldn't be irrational to believe in God.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry. Without God, there is no Bible, or maybe Aliens.

Quran, bagavad ghita, the iliad, the norse myths, the roman myths, the greek myths, dianetics, ............

I assume you don't believe the gods portrayed therein all exist. So if those books / tales / myths can exist without those gods, why would the bible be any different?

But another thing... feeding the animals... God could have dropped food from the sky like in the exodus.

More god-magic.

Once again, the facts don't match up with the tale and you try to then make the tale work anyway by explaining the facts away through invoking even more god-magic.

Do you know what "special" explanations we need to conclude the biblical flood didn't happen? Literally ZERO.

To conclude the flood DID happen, you have to keep piling on these "special" explanations pretty much non-stop, to explain away all the facts that don't fit that evidence.

Imagine being in a jury in a court during a murder trial. Imagine ALL the facts point to the accused. DNA, fingerprints, bloodstains, gunpowder on his hands, security camera's filming him, gps chip in his phone putting him at the location at that time, etc etc etc.

And his defense is that "elves planted all that evidence with elvish magic".
This is basicly what you are doing here.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Universe could be infinite but generated by a formula so it wouldn't be irrational to believe in God.

That doesn't follow at all.

Honest question: are you a poe or trolling?

I'm starting to have difficulty taking you seriously

 

[robocop (actually)]

That doesn't follow at all.

Honest question: are you a poe or trolling?

I'm starting to have difficulty taking you seriously

Sorry but the Bible says for good reason that you cannot know God unless you do His will.

There are plenty of Christian noble prize winners.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Quran, bagavad ghita, the iliad, the norse myths, the roman myths, the greek myths, dianetics, ............

I assume you don't believe the gods portrayed therein all exist. So if those books / tales / myths can exist without those gods, why would the bible be any different?



More god-magic.

Once again, the facts don't match up with the tale and you try to then make the tale work anyway by explaining the facts away through invoking even more god-magic.

Do you know what "special" explanations we need to conclude the biblical flood didn't happen? Literally ZERO.

To conclude the flood DID happen, you have to keep piling on these "special" explanations pretty much non-stop, to explain away all the facts that don't fit that evidence.

Imagine being in a jury in a court during a murder trial. Imagine ALL the facts point to the accused. DNA, fingerprints, bloodstains, gunpowder on his hands, security camera's filming him, gps chip in his phone putting him at the location at that time, etc etc etc.

And his defense is that "elves planted all that evidence with elvish magic".
This is basicly what you are doing here.

The Bible is the most popular book on earth and most religious books are very similar... I've read them. Elves is not a popular belief.

 

[nPeace]

When all that water recedes (quite quickly, and where did it go?) why wouldn't all the organic matter settle in one big mass/layer like it does in other floods?

Other floods? Which ones?
Organic matter settle? The billions of transitional fossils must be still around then. Why do they say fossilization is rare?

 

[ecco]

No physical evidence may be found. Does that mean the account is false, and the event did not happen?

Yes. That is what it means.
There is no evidence found in the geological layers.
There is no evidence found in the fossil layers.
There is no evidence found that indicates how, for example, kangaroos made it to Australia.
On the contrary...
The geologogical layers show no disruption from 20,000 years ago to the present.
The fossil layers show no disruption from 20,000 years ago to the present.

So, no evidence that it did happen and extensive evidence that it did not.

The only way out is that, after the flood, your god re-terraformed the earth to make it appear that nothing happened.

 

[ecco]

I know people who've felt the same way, a friend had two Geology Masters and the Bible intrigued him. After two years of study on both sides of the issues, He believed in original Creation and trusted Jesus for salvation.

You have your anonymous friend. I have actual people...

The percentage of Americans who have abandoned religious faith has been growing rapidly in recent years, with one in five Americans citing “none” as their religious affiliation. Most of these people have little to fear when it comes to admitting they have no religion, but for a small subset of religious believers, quitting faith is one of the hardest choices they’ll have to make in their lives. What happens to people who lose their faith in God after they’ve taken on a position as a religious leader? Here’s an examination of five prominent skeptics of religion who used to consider themselves not just believers, but leaders, and how they’ve learned to cope with life after religion.​

1) Dan Barker. Religion was a major part of Dan Barker’s life for more than two decades. He became an evangelical Christian in his early teens and entered a career as a preacher who specialized in spreading the Christian faith through music. He wrote popular religious children’s musicals, worked heavily with Christian singer Manuel Bonilla, and accompanied many other famous Christian musicians.

2) Jerry DeWitt. For some, leaving religion exacts a high price. Jerry DeWitt lost his faith after 25 years in the Pentecostal ministry in Bible Belt rural America. DeWitt, who was converted at age 17 in Jimmy Swaggart’s church, hung onto his religion as long as he could, but finally could no longer hide his lack of belief.



3) Teresa MacBain. Teresa MacBain described to NPR the hell that is continuing to serve as a minister after losing your faith in God: “I start having stomachaches, headaches, just knowing that I got to stand up and say things that I no longer believe in and portray myself in a way that's totally false.”

4) Anthony Pinn. Anthony Pinn is a professor of religious studies at Rice University and an outspoken expert on African-American humanism. As he explained in a recent speech at Skepticon, he began preaching at the ripe old age of 12, and was ordained at age of 18. His doubts started immediately after he started working as a youth pastor...

5) Andrew Johnson. In the Mormon faith, young men must demonstrate their right to inherit the priesthood by going on a missionary trip to spread their faith to the non-believers. For Andrew Johnson, however, going on a missionary trip made him a non-believer.


Do you really want to play this game?

There seems to be evidence on both sides, for and against the Flood and Creation stories, but I promise you God is able to instruct us.

Wrong. There is no evidence for the flood and much evidence against the flood. If your god is able to instruct you, why can't you make convincing arguments to support the flood? Hmm.

 

[nPeace]

If you don't know already , your too far gone.

I was about to ask @The Hammer, but then it hit me You are thinking that Noah didn't carry corn on board, so if the story were true, we would not have corn today.
Although The produce Noah took on board could have included corn, let's assume he took none.
Would we still have corn? Yes.
Seeds are deposited in many ways. One of those ways is from within organisms.
Can Seeds in a Dead Person's Stomach Really Sprout into Trees?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was about to ask @The Hammer, but then it hit me You are thinking that Noah didn't carry corn on board, so if the story were true, we would not have corn today.
Although The produce Noah took on board could have included corn, let's assume he took none.
Would we still have corn? Yes.
Seeds are deposited in many ways. One of those ways is from within organisms.
Can Seeds in a Dead Person's Stomach Really Sprout into Trees?

Of course a non-existent person could not take corn onto the ark. The problem is for believers is why is corn or maize for the non-American posters, found only in the New World naturally? Corn was unknown in the Old World until after the discovery of the New World. There are not even any "preflood" versions of it preserved in any sediments. This poses quite the problem for believers since all sorts of vegetables and grains would have had to have been picked up from the New World, transferred to the Old World when no such abilities existed and then brought back again when once again, no such abilities existed. Corn (maize) potatoes, tomatoes, pepper plants (not black pepper), quinoa and others. Look at that, where plants grow refutes the flood myth too.

 

[gnostic]

Sorry but the Bible says for good reason that you cannot know God unless you do His will.

There are plenty of Christian noble prize winners.

Except those Christians are not trying to promote the Bible as it is science.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Except those Christians are not trying to promote the Bible as it is science.

Fair enough.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Why do they say fossilization is rare?

I googled "Why is fossilization rare" and came up with loads of articles on the subject.

Why are fossils rare? | Socratic.

 

[gnostic]

I can believe it on the evidence you just mentioned.

But nothing about the miracles of god or of their prophets mentioned in the OT as real historical events, which make the Bible on the whole as unreliable sources.

That would include the NT too.

Jesus may have been a real person, but the gospels recording lots of the events cannot be verified, and the few that mentioned are not very accurate.

For example, one gospel (Luke’s) say that Jesus was born in Bethany around the time that Herod was alive and during Augustus was still emperor.

BUT his birth was recorded that occurred when the census of Quirinius was about to take place, which would require Joseph to travel to Bethlehem, and that it would occurred the “world” (as in all the provinces in Roman Empire).

Except all that isn’t impossible, because Quirinius was never governor of Syria while Herod was still alive, and no census took place until 10 years after Herod’s death (4 BCE), when Augustus banished Herod Archelaus from Judaea in 6 CE, thereby turning Judaea into a Roman province.

Quirinius was serving as governor of Galatea at the time, and was trying to quell a rebellion in neighboring Cilicia, while Herod was still alive. Quirinius only became governor in Syria in 6 CE when Judaea became a Roman province, 10 years after Herod’s death.

Another error is that census only took place in 6 CE in Judaea, and not the rest of Roman provinces.

And still another error, is that subjects would only register for census in the place they were currently living in, not the ancestral home of the tribes. Joseph didn’t need to register if his home was in Nazareth, Galilee. Galilee wasn’t a Roman province at that time.

It is these types of errors and inconsistencies that make the NT unreliable as historical sources.