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A Baptist church had a great idea. A drive in service! Nope.

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I tried warning about New York, but nobody listened. Now New York is impounding Muslims, killing Uegers and replacing church bishops. If only New York had not listened to Mao Xe Dong. It's pretty bad. I totes agree its terrible. Maybe we should send in some marines.
Dont give him ideas.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I have my doubts, where here a major issue and concern is people yamming on about rights they don't actually have. A right to work and an income would be great, but America passed on that when FDR brought it up. The worst and potentially most destructive Ive heard is this right to do "whatever they want."
And people here have already demonstrated multiple times they can't be trusted to follow the rules.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The difference is vaccinations are not in the Constitution. Religious freedom is.
This is ridiculous. No one is denying anyone their religious freedoms, anymore than they are denying us our individual liberties by curtailing certain behaviours during a time of public health crisis. Please, Right Wingers, grow up a little here and quit being so selfish and whinny, and playing the victim card. We're all in this together. We all have to do this for each other right now.

I'm not getting to go to my Tai Chi Studio classes either, which is just as good as church. So, suck it up a little too, okay?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Interesting wrinkle: a statement from the local police chief says, if you read between the lines, that the minister is lying about being threatened with a fine (emphasis mine):


Did Massena church violate soci
Of course not, but would you say the 2nd amendment gives me the right to drive around your neighborhood in the middle of the night while hanging out of the driver's side window with an AK, spraying bullets into the air?

al distancing rules?

If that's the case then why did the church make such a hubba bubloo over it?

Still what were the police there for in the first place?
This is ridiculous. No one is denying anyone their religious freedoms, anymore than they are denying us our individual liberties by curtailing certain behaviours during a time of public health crisis. Please, Right Wingers, grow up a little here and quit being so selfish and whinny, and playing the victim card. We're all in this together. We all have to do this for each other right now.

I'm not getting to go to my Tai Chi Studio classes either, which is just as good as church. So, suck it up a little too, okay?
Im siding with the Churches here. Im not going to give in to unconstitutional mandates made by rouge governors that are unwilling to abide by the Federal Constitution.

Religious freedoms are non negotiable and protected rights.

What needs to be sucked up is the hard fact that the virus is here to stay on a permanent basis. It's simply not going to go anywhere and people need to get used to it.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Im siding with the Churches here. Im not going to give in to unconstitutional mandates made by rouge governors that are unwilling to abide by the Federal Constitution.
Are they saying you cannot practice your religion? Or are they simply saying we can't allow gatherings of any kind, be they school classrooms, gymnasiums, sports events, church gatherings, shopping malls, etc. What make you so damned special here? I haven't been able to go swimming at the YMCA for the past however many months now. Waaaa..... it's unconstitutional!

Please, this is ridiculous.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Are they saying you cannot practice your religion? Or are they simply saying we can't allow gatherings of any kind, be they school classrooms, gymnasiums, sports events, church gatherings, shopping malls, etc. What make you so damned special here? I haven't been able to go swimming at the YMCA for the past however many months now. Waaaa..... it's unconstitutional!

Please, this is ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is you can't even determine what it actually says in the Constitution about free assembly. It's as black and white as it can possibly get.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
If that's the case then why did the church make such a hubba bubloo over it?
I could think of plenty of plausible reasons.

Lots of Christian churches have the mentality that people who aren't being persecuted aren't true Christians; sometimes this means inventing persecutions to keep up appearances.

Still what were the police there for in the first place?
First establish that the police were there at all, then ask why they were there.

Im siding with the Churches here. Im not going to give in to unconstitutional mandates made by rouge governors that are unwilling to abide by the Federal Constitution.

Religious freedoms are non negotiable and protected rights.
Which part of Cuomo's executive orders - the actual orders, not what some dishonest church claims are his orders - do you think is unconstitutional? Quote the order number and section/paragraph/etc.
What needs to be sucked up is the hard fact that the virus is here to stay on a permanent basis. It's simply not going to go anywhere and people need to get used to it.
Indeed. This is why many churches have moved their Sunday services online.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What's ridiculous is you can't even determine what it actually says in the Constitution about free assembly. It's as black and white as it can possibly get.
Black and White thinking is the problem. Insistence upon free assembly, during the middle a public health crisis, takes precedence over others lives?

What about if the damned building was about to collapse and was condemned and could fall upon people who stupidly ignored the police orders to stay out of the building? What if it was full of radioactive waste material? Would you cry it's unconstitutional if they blocked it's entrances?

Again, this is absolutely ridiculous. You cannot seriously think you have any possible valid argument here. This is just whiny irrational victimhood as a response an actual threat to the lives of many in the community. You don't care about them? Just you, you, you?

Again, we're all in this together. Crying victimhood is just simply unhelpful to anyone.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Im siding with the Churches here. Im not going to give in to unconstitutional mandates made by rouge governors that are unwilling to abide by the Federal Constitution.

Religious freedoms are non negotiable and protected rights.

What needs to be sucked up is the hard fact that the virus is here to stay on a permanent basis. It's simply not going to go anywhere and people need to get used to it.
Since you missed the news, and apparently I dont know what over the past few months, but at this momemt in human history their is a nasty new virus gloating around. It is deadly enough temporary makeshift morgues have went up around the world, and mass buriels are happening. The scary thing is, we know some of who is at risk, but this thing infects amd kills regardless if you high risk or not. Amd it is EXTREMELY contagious. Where people have gathered, consistently the virus has spread. And what makes things worse, most people are the most contagious before they display a single symptom. Some people never evem develop symptoms, and some develop symtpoms so minor it seems indistinguishable from seasonal sniffles. I myself was even put on home quarantine by my doctor do to symptoms that are similar to covid, because thats how seriously they are taking this. A lot more has happened, but thats the gist. We are in a state of crises, it is a state of emergency as we near 100,000 deaths. Sort of like how the government can restrict roghts during times of war or natural disaster (Indiana has done it many times due to very severe winter conditions). So, its actually pretty bad right now and the best thing we can do is stay away from eachother and stay home unless we need to go out for necessities. People's lives are depending on this.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Since you missed the news, and apparently I dont know what over the past few months, but at this momemt in human history their is a nasty new virus gloating around. It is deadly enough temporary makeshift morgues have went up around the world, and mass buriels are happening. The scary thing is, we know some of who is at risk, but this thing infects amd kills regardless if you high risk or not. Amd it is EXTREMELY contagious. Where people have gathered, consistently the virus has spread. And what makes things worse, most people are the most contagious before they display a single symptom. Some people never evem develop symptoms, and some develop symtpoms so minor it seems indistinguishable from seasonal sniffles. I myself was even put on home quarantine by my doctor do to symptoms that are similar to covid, because thats how seriously they are taking this. A lot more has happened, but thats the gist. We are in a state of crises, it is a state of emergency as we near 100,000 deaths. Sort of like how the government can restrict roghts during times of war or natural disaster (Indiana has done it many times due to very severe winter conditions). So, its actually pretty bad right now and the best thing we can do is stay away from eachother and stay home unless we need to go out for necessities. People's lives are depending on this.
But what about their constitutional right to free assembly? Surely, none of these facts should be allowed to keep folks from going to a good Sunday Church service? How will their faith possibly survive not assembling together for a few months? It puts their faith at a grave risk! It sounds like the devil is behind all of this, trying to get Christians to lose their faith and worship lucifer as king. Skippin church even for 6 months, is enough to cause one to lose their souls! :)
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
But what about their constitutional right to free assembly? Surely, none of these facts should be allowed to keep folks from going to a good Sunday Church service? How will their faith possibly survive not assembling together for a few months? It puts their faith at a grave risk! It sounds like the devil is behind all of this, trying to get Christians to lose their faith and worship lucifer as king. Skippin church even for 6 months, is enough to cause one to lose their souls! :)
Like I mentioned, the Constitution is not a negotiable instrument.

Even in the People's Republic of California.....



1,200 California Pastors Plan To Defy Stay-At-Home Orders To Hold Services
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Surely, none of these facts should be allowed to keep folks from going to a good Sunday Church service?
Did you not read the part of makeshift morgues amd mass burials around the world? No, they shouldn't be allowed because they are putting others at risk and church attendance has been identified as something people are dou g that spreading covid.
It sounds like the devil is behind all of this, trying to get Christians to lose their faith and worship lucifer as king. Skippin church even for 6 months, is enough to cause one to lose their souls! :)
If they cant withstand a few months of no chirch because of a crisis then they have a very weak faith. If they can't put their own wants asode for the necessity of all of us to help keep us all safe, theyre probably looking fir an excuse tonquit anyways.
Doesn't matter. Going to church--as have all gatherings of more than a few people-- has been identified as something spreading illness. You have no right to endanger others.
How will their faith possibly survive not assembling together for a few months? It puts their faith at a grave risk! I
That is not the concern of those at known and unknown Covid risks. That'll just have to between that person and their god.
Or they cpuld get on social media like other churches. Thats been a pretty safe suggestion with no chance of people bungling it up.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
With regard to quarantine, SCOTUS upheld the authority of the state and federal governments to impose quarantines. This is from the Harvard Law site:

"The Supreme Court passed upon the validity of federal quarantine powers under the Commerce Clause and the simultaneous power held by states to implement their own quarantines in Bartlett v. Lockwood in 1896. The Court held as unquestionable the "authority of Congress to establish quarantine regulations and to protect the country as respects its commerce from contagious and infectious diseases,"[126] . It also, however, recognized that this federal power did not invalidate state laws relating to the same policy domain, citing Congress's decision "in view of the different requirements of different climates and localities and of the difficulty of framing general law upon the subject, ...to permit the several States to regulate the matter of protecting the public health as to themselves seemed best."[127] The Court thus seemed to view the federal appropriation of a power which had traditionally belonged to the states as justified under the Commerce Clause. Another case before the court in 1896 presented the more pointed question of whether state or federal laws would prevail in the case of conflict, when the federal law was enacted under the authority of the Commerce Clause and the state law enacted for the purpose of regulating health. In Hennington v. Georgia , Justice Harlan delivered the opinion of the court:

"If the inspection, quarantine, or health laws of a State, passed under its reserved power to provide for the health, comfort, safety of its people, come into conflict with an act of Congress, passed under its power to regulate interstate and foreign commerce, such local regulations, to the extent of the conflict, must give way in order that the supreme law of the land—an act of Congress passed in pursuance of the Constitution—may have unobstructed operation."[128]

This ruling left little question that Congress could enact quarantine laws and the Surgeon General could enforce them even if those laws conflicted with state quarantine laws."​
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
If that's the case then why did the church make such a hubba bubloo over it?

Still what were the police there for in the first place?

Im siding with the Churches here. Im not going to give in to unconstitutional mandates made by rouge governors that are unwilling to abide by the Federal Constitution.

Religious freedoms are non negotiable and protected rights.

What needs to be sucked up is the hard fact that the virus is here to stay on a permanent basis. It's simply not going to go anywhere
If that's the case then why did the church make such a hubba bubloo over it?

Still what were the police there for in the first place?

Im siding with the Churches here. Im not going to give in to unconstitutional mandates made by rouge governors that are unwilling to abide by the Federal Constitution.

Religious freedoms are non negotiable and protected rights.

What needs to be sucked up is the hard fact that the virus is here to stay on a permanent basis. It's simply not going to go anywhere and people need to get used to it.

I didn't understand the response to my quote (which is trapped in another quote.)
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Since you missed the news, and apparently I dont know what over the past few months, but at this momemt in human history their is a nasty new virus gloating around. It is deadly enough temporary makeshift morgues have went up around the world, and mass buriels are happening. The scary thing is, we know some of who is at risk, but this thing infects amd kills regardless if you high risk or not. Amd it is EXTREMELY contagious. Where people have gathered, consistently the virus has spread. And what makes things worse, most people are the most contagious before they display a single symptom. Some people never evem develop symptoms, and some develop symtpoms so minor it seems indistinguishable from seasonal sniffles. I myself was even put on home quarantine by my doctor do to symptoms that are similar to covid, because thats how seriously they are taking this. A lot more has happened, but thats the gist. We are in a state of crises, it is a state of emergency as we near 100,000 deaths. Sort of like how the government can restrict roghts during times of war or natural disaster (Indiana has done it many times due to very severe winter conditions). So, its actually pretty bad right now and the best thing we can do is stay away from eachother and stay home unless we need to go out for necessities. People's lives are depending on this.

Actually I think a lot of churches are recognizing the dangers and taking all expected precautions.

The thing is, that the virus is never going to go away now. It's permanent.

My main point is, you can't keep people in a permanent lockdown.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Did you not read the part of makeshift morgues amd mass burials around the world? No, they shouldn't be allowed because they are putting others at risk and church attendance has been identified as something people are dou g that spreading covid.
You do realize that entire post of mine was satire, right? Try reading it again, and take that smiley face at the end of it as was intended, just in case you read what I said literally, which interestingly enough you did. :)
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
My God. It's times like this, dumb comes really seeps to the surface.
That's what I thought and earlier on during the onset, we would have agreed.

But now there are developed methods that we use to help flatten the curve, and it's working.

As long as a church abides by the proper health precautions that's prescribed by the medical community, I don't think they should be hindered from meeting together as long as they maintain proper procedure in helping negate the spread.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's what I thought and earlier on during the onset, we would have agreed.

But now there are message that we used tohelp flatten the curve and it's working.

As long as a church abide by the proper health precautions that's prescribed by the medical community I don't think they should be hindered from meeting together as long as they maintain proper procedure in helping negate the spread.
Why is it so hard for you to just go along with things for a little while longer? Are you afraid you're going to lose your faith if you don't manage to meet once a week? This is so stupid, I can't believe it's actually a thing in people's minds. They must be really, really bored, and really, really dumb at the same time. So dumb, they ignore common sense during a pandemic.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Why is it so hard for you to just go along with things for a little while longer? Are you afraid you're going to lose your faith if you don't manage to meet once a week? This is so stupid, I can't believe it's actually a thing in people's minds. They must be really, really bored.
Actually I'm an atheist. and I've criticized Christianity and theistic religions quite often and will continue to do so.

The thing is, I also recognize the rights and importance of having constitutional protections, of which freedom of religion is specifically mentioned.

I don't think any of us would mind waiting a little bit longer, but what if that longer keeps getting extended? Where's the fine line here?

It should hopefully have dawned on all of us in knowing the virus is here to stay. It's permanent now.

You simply can't keep people quarantined forever.
 
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