7th day of rest

[Unveiled Artist]

You apparently need to re-read your own original post. In it you seem to be likening a "day" to the Earth rotating around the sun. You made a huge faux pas and apparently don't even realize it. I understand why you'd like to paint me as the confused one here, but seriously... read back over your OP. You literally liken "the 7th time the Earth rotates around the sun" to the period of a day. The Earth making a full rotation around the sun is a YEAR, not a day. The day/night cycle is caused by the spinning of the Earth on its own axis, and has very little to do with revolution around the sun. Read. Comprehend. Get your thoughts straight... and don't blame me for your own mistakes.

The bible just says rest on the 7th day. Why are days of the week more important than the 7th time the earth rotates around the sun? I assume that was the gist long ago-based on the rise and setting of the sun. Why the problem?

Why are days of the week more important than the 7th day the earth rotates the sun?

In other words, why is it important to have Saturday or Sunday is the most important day rather than the seventh day of working one should rest?

As for the mechanics of how the earth goes around the sun is irrelevant here.

You apparently need to re-read your own original post. In it you seem to be likening a "day" to the Earth rotating around the sun. You made a huge faux pas and apparently don't even realize it. I understand why you'd like to paint me as the confused one here, but seriously... read back over your OP.

The seventh day without reference to the seventh day calendar Monday-Sunday. Your tone is more accusative rather than asking for clarification.

You literally liken "the 7th time the Earth rotates around the sun" to the period of a day. The Earth making a full rotation around the sun is a YEAR, not a day.

Okay. The question is still the same.

The day/night cycle is caused by the spinning of the Earth on its own axis, and has very little to do with revolution around the sun. Read. Comprehend. Get your thoughts straight... and don't blame me for your own mistakes.

The question is just the same as the OP.

Ask for clarification or add constructive criticisms but don't insult my intelligence.

 

[pingpongpal]

Your problem is that Yeshua didn't rise on the 1st day of the week. When Mary went to the tomb, at the end of the Sabbath, which occurs around 6:00 PM on "Saturday", which is when the 1st day of the week dawns/begins, the tomb was already empty. (Mt 28:1) Pain in child birth still exists for the majority of women in the world and intervention procedures often put the child at risk. Hard labor still exist in providing food. Herbicides and pesticides can cause many medical problems for the farmers and the eaters of the food. Getting parts for a John Deere tractor can sometimes be a curse in itself. Financing a large farm John Deere tractor can be a curse in itself. There is no "eighth day of the feast". There is a 7 day feast of booths, and a following "last great day", referred in Lev 22 as the 8th day. They are not part of the same feast. The feast of booths portrays the subjugation of the nations (Zechariah 14) after the "tribulation", which precedes the millennium, whereas the "Last Great Day" portrays the period after the millennium when day and night is no longer the norm, whereas there is a new heaven and earth, and Jerusalem will be lit by the glory of God, and there will be no "night there" (Rev 21:25).

Are you saying that since the Sabbath goes from Friday night to Saturday night that Jesus rose before Saturday night? How does that align with Luke 24:1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared? If Jesus rose before Saturday night, how is He in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights?
The point I was making about the curse was that God has mitigated it through giving us technology. Of course, we are still under the curse but its effect has been lessened. The mitigation has happened in first world countries which are countries where the kingdom of God has been or is pervasive. The mitigation is why we want to live in 2020 instead of 1920 or 1820 etc. When I lived in China I saw a man plowing a field walking behind an ox with a single plow. Would you rather do that rather than finance a John Deere tractor? I hope you are not saying that we trading one curse for another. All I am saying is that the effect of the curse has been lessened by what God has given to man. The reason this is important to me is that if God is pushing back the curse by giving technology to man, then it follows that the church, men and women, will bring the world into submission to Jesus Christ. This is opposed to what many protestants believe that the church fails to bring the world into submission and Jesus comes and does it for us.
There are 37 verses in the Old Testament with the word eighth. You do not have to believe in eighth-day theology. I would like you to agree that since Jesus came not only are people being redeemed but the earth as well. The scripture to support this is Rom 8:20, 21 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Actually, the apostles chosen by Yeshua were Jewish and kept the Jewish law.

I agree that the apostles were Jews who kept the shabbat, as did the early Jewish believers. However, it was not long before Paul had many Gentile converts. These were not required to keep Jewish law, as per the Council of Jerusalem.

As for your Pauline Christians, when confronted by the apostles, even Paul kept Jewish law and circumcised his young male friend.

Paul circumicised Timothy because Timothy was a Jew. On the other hand, Paul did not circumcise Titus, Titus being a non-Jew.

As for Constantine, his goal was unification of his empire, and apparently, according to his historian, who was the also the church historian, Eusebius, Constantine was baptized on his death bed. Being as Eusebius was quoted as saying that he wrote to put the church in the best of lights, and truth was apparently not of highest value, and his partial excommunication in 325 for his Arian position put him at odds with the final verdict of the Roman church. According to Constantine's minting of Roman coins, his god was Sol Invictus, and his banner carried the pagan image given to him at the battle of Milvian Bridge by Sol Invictus. If indeed Constantine was even baptized, which I doubt, his baptizer would probably have been by the Arian Eusebius. The "Christian" in Constantine's family was his mother, he remained head of the pagan church as well as the Roman Christian church. The Nicene based Roman Christian church was not made official until 367 AD under another emperor.

Constantine spoke at the council of Nicea as an honorary guest. He supported the Arian position. When he was eventually baptized, it was by an Arian bishop.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Why are days of the week more important than the 7th day the earth rotates the sun?

Yes, this question itself is terribly flawed. I am trying to point out that flaw, and you are getting defensive.

In other words, why is it important to have Saturday or Sunday is the most important day rather than the seventh day of working one should rest?

No day has any more importance than another. One cycle of sunlight hitting the surface of the Earth is no more important than the next cycle of sunlight hitting the surface of the Earth. There... I answered your precious question. Are you satisfied?

As for the mechanics of how the earth goes around the sun is irrelevant here.

But not irrelevant to what should be your quest to present yourself as intelligent and in full understanding of what you are discussing. As it stands, I have to assume you have very little idea what it is you are even discussing. You don't even know what it is that we have labeled "day." In a general sense, you obviously know it is "when it is light outside" or "a full cycle of it being dark and then light outside" - and had you just stated it in those simplistic terms, there would be no problem. Yet here you are... talking about the Earth rotating around the sun - and referencing that as if it had much of anything to do with "day." It displays a lack of understanding. One that I found too great to simply ignore. So sue me.

The seventh day without reference to the seventh day calendar Monday-Sunday. Your tone is more accusative rather than asking for clarification.

But the point is that it seems to be YOU who is in need of clarification. I tried to simply give this to you to start with, and then you tried to paint me as irrational or confused. I am not the one confused here.

Okay. The question is still the same.

And now I have answered it. Would you prefer that I start a thread topic asking you to clarify your position on what you understand as day versus a year as it pertains to the orbit of the Earth around the sun?

The question is just the same as the OP.

An OP that contains a flaw, which I have pointed out, and which you STILL seem to completely lack understanding of.

Ask for clarification or add constructive criticisms but don't insult my intelligence.

Of course you would find it insulting. Of course you would. Good luck with that.

 

[2ndpillar]

I agree that the apostles were Jews who kept the shabbat, as did the early Jewish believers. However, it was not long before Paul had many Gentile converts. These were not required to keep Jewish law, as per the Council of Jerusalem. Paul circumicised Timothy because Timothy was a Jew. On the other hand, Paul did not circumcise Titus, Titus being a non-Jew.
Constantine spoke at the council of Nicea as an honorary guest. He supported the Arian position. When he was eventually baptized, it was by an Arian bishop.

Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea at his summer palace and as Pontifex Maximus ran the show. Constantine supported and condemned the Arian position, depending on the direction of the wind. Eventually he made a decree that anyone holding any documents of Arius would be subject to a penalty of death. Constantine's Council of Nicaea wound up condemning the Arian position and voted on the pagan Trinity concept more in line with the pagan religion of his military. As for Timothy, his father was Greek. (Acts 16:3) As for the truth of Galatians 2 , Gal 2:7 flies in the face of Acts 15:7 which says Peter was to go to the Gentiles versus Galatians 2 which says the opposite. Depending on the testimony of unknown authors and false prophets is a wide twisted path, that leads to destruction.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

As for Timothy, his father was Greek. (Acts 16:3)

Timothy's mother was a Jew. Jewish identity is passed through the mother. Thus Timothy was a Jew.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No day has any more importance than another.

That's all I wanted to know. Everything else I read sound more questioning my intelligence than positive correction.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

That's all I wanted to know. Everything else I read sound more questioning my intelligence than positive correction.

Please learn about the day/night cycle of Earth and its rotation around the sun.

 

[sojourner]

New American Standard Bible
"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

There is no bible verse referring to the "eighth day" being the "Lord's day". The verse you might have in mind is that Paul panhandled for donations supposedly for the widows of Jerusalem on the 1st day of the week. That apparently has been modified, for now Paul's church panhandles for the support of their church and leadership on the 1st day of the week, the day of the Sun.

You wish. You (and others) make this assertion, but you have no evidence to back up your assertion. it is, indeed, in the bible; I've pointed this out to you several times, and you keep refuting it -- even though most bible scholars agree with me.

 

[sojourner]

As for worshipping the Lord Caesar Constantine and his god, then follow his decree of 321 AD and worship on the day of his sun god, Sol Invictus, and worship on the day of the sun.

This is unnecessarily provocative -- and flat wrong.

Constantine was the "beast with two horns like a lamb", and the worship/hollowing of the sun/dragon, was simply part of his "mark".

Revelation isn't a prophecy -- it's an apocalypse. You'll need to prove that Constantine was such, and that he intended the Lord's Day to worship the "sun dragon." This sounds more like Lord of the Rings than early Christian history.

 

[sojourner]

"now late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave" (Matthew 28:1), points towards your narrative being contrived. Contrived to the extent that the Roman church catechism changes the commandments to read "keep holy the day of the Lord".

Fantasy.

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—

Not cogent to the issue of first-century Gentile converts.

by way of Constantine, who instituted the Roman Church by way of being the emperor and Pontifex Maximus.

More fantasy. If you were Pinocchio, your nose would reach beyond the moon.

 

[sojourner]

Technically we can still make sacrifices. I'm saddened that so many people think that Judaism stipulates one must convert to be regarded by G-d. How sad.

It is sad -- and insidious. It makes Judaism out to be something it is not.

 

[sojourner]

Since I am am Christian, I do not see Rabbinical Judaism as the religion God originally established.

The fantasy is that there was some "original" religion "established by God." There simply is no such thing. Rabbinical Judaism is different than the religion of the early Hebrews, just as Xy is different today than it was in the beginning. The notion that we can, somehow, "restore" religion to some ideal "original" is wishful thinking and a waste of spiritual energy. Our task is to move forward, not backward. Religion is an organic creation, not a museum piece.

Your problem is that Yeshua didn't rise on the 1st day of the week. When Mary went to the tomb, at the end of the Sabbath, which occurs around 6:00 PM on "Saturday", which is when the 1st day of the week dawns/begins, the tomb was already empty. (Mt 28:1)

Your problem is that you're misreading Matthew. "After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning." After the Sabbath -- after -- as the first day of the week was dawning. Dawn is right before sunrise.

Actually, the apostles chosen by Yeshua were Jewish and kept the Jewish law. As for your Pauline Christians, when confronted by the apostles, even Paul kept Jewish law and circumcised his young male friend.

Paul also argued (and won) that Gentiles didn't have to become Jews in order to be faithful Christians.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Please learn about the day/night cycle of Earth and its rotation around the sun.

What does this have to do with the context of the conversation?

 

[2ndpillar]

The fantasy is that there was some "original" religion "established by God." There simply is no such thing. Rabbinical Judaism is different than the religion of the early Hebrews, just as Xy is different today than it was in the beginning. The notion that we can, somehow, "restore" religion to some ideal "original" is wishful thinking and a waste of spiritual energy. Our task is to move forward, not backward. Religion is an organic creation, not a museum piece.


Your problem is that you're misreading Matthew. "After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning." After the Sabbath -- after -- as the first day of the week was dawning. Dawn is right before sunrise.


Paul also argued (and won) that Gentiles didn't have to become Jews in order to be faithful Christians.

You seem to be over reaching. A Jewish day dawns/begins after sunset. Many assume that Matthew was Jewish. 3 days and 3 nights past the internment would be in the evening, not the morning. Nevertheless, the tomb was empty when Mary came.

According to the false prophet Paul, his associates, and Paul's Christian church, he won. The fact that Paul and his followers are dead (1 Cor 15:52) might argue against him being a prophet of God. As for the Gentile nations "where I have scattered you (Jacob)" surviving the end times is naught. (Jeremiah 30:11) Your confusion is understandable as "those who dwell on the earth" have been deceived (Revelation 13:14). How you could be so thoroughly deceived should baffle the minds of the discerning.(Daniel 12:10)

King James Bible Mt 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

What does this have to do with the context of the conversation?

Nothing. Does it seem like I care?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nothing. Does it seem like I care?

No. It's just a forum. So, you're making all the fuss over nothing???

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

No. It's just a forum. So, you're making all the fuss over nothing???

How quickly you forget the topic of conversation yourself. Do you understand WHAT it was I was saying I didn't care about? I was stating, specifically, that I didn't care about "the context of the conversation." At least... I didn't care as much about that as I did about correcting your mistake in what you assumed was "knowledge" on your part.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How quickly you forget the topic of conversation yourself. Do you understand WHAT it was I was saying I didn't care about? I was stating, specifically, that I didn't care about "the context of the conversation." At least... I didn't care as much about that as I did about correcting your mistake in what you assumed was "knowledge" on your part.

So.... what is all the fuss about? It's just a forum. Since you don't care per above, then what else can I learn from you besides astronomy?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

So.... what is all the fuss about? It's just a forum. Since you don't care per above, then what else can I learn from you besides astronomy?

You still can't seem to grasp what I am saying, even with simple explanations.

IT IS NOT THE FORUM I DO NOT CARE ABOUT.

IT WAS THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION THAT I STATED I DID NOT CARE ABOUT.

Do you understand now? I am done after this post, by the way. I may read what you reply... but this is so obviously a waste of time. You need to re-read all of our interaction. Maybe you can find the clues you need to reach some form of understanding.