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75 Theses ~ Science Against Evolution

Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
I've just come across this creationist website ...it looks very basic so may be old and abandoned but it is useful to help understand the mind of a creationist.

Science Against Evolution Official Home Page

One of the pages ....
Seventy-five Theses
.....is their 75 Theses "We hold these truths to be undeniable."

  1. Initially, the Earth was a lifeless planet.
  2. There is life on Earth now.
  3. At some time in the past, life either originated on Earth, or came to Earth from outer space.
  4. Regardless of where or when life originated, it had to originate sometime, somewhere, somehow.
  5. Life either originated by purely natural processes, or else some supernatural element must have been involved.
  6. Science, as defined by the American public school system, excludes supernatural explanations.
  7. Science depends upon the “Scientific Method” for determining truth.
  8. The Scientific Method involves testing hypotheses using repeatable experiments.
  9. If there is a scientific explanation for the origin of life, it must depend entirely on natural, repeatable processes.
  10. If life originated by a natural process under certain specific conditions, it should be possible to create life again under the same conditions.
  11. For more than 50 years scientists have tried to find conditions that produce life, without success.
  12. Fifty years of failed attempts to create life have raised more questions than answers about how life could have originated naturally.
  13. Living things have been observed to die from natural processes, which can be repeated in a laboratory.
  14. Life has never been observed to originate through any natural process.
  15. “Abiogenesis” is the belief that life can originate from non-living substances through purely natural processes.
  16. The theory of evolution depends upon abiogenesis as the starting point.
  17. If the theory of abiogenesis is false, then the theory of evolution is false.
  18. The American public school system teaches that somehow the first living cell formed naturally and reproduced.
  19. There is no known way in which the first living cell could have formed naturally.
  20. The first living cell would have needed some mechanism for metabolism.
  21. There is no known natural process by which metabolism could originate in a lifeless cell.
  22. The first living cell would have to grow and reproduce for life to continue past the first cell’s death.
  23. Growth and reproduction require cell division.
  24. Cell division is a complex process.
  25. There is no known natural process by which cell division could originate by chance.
  26. According to the theory of evolution, single-celled life forms evolved into multi-cellular life forms.
  27. Multi-cellular life forms consist of an assembly of cells that have different functions.
  28. There is no scientific explanation for how a single cell could or would naturally change function.
  29. Single-celled organisms have a membrane which allows the cell to exchange some substances (“nutrients” and “waste”, for lack of better terms) with the environment.
  30. Not all cells in larger multi-cellular organisms are in contact with the external environment.
  31. Larger multi-cellular organisms need some method for the interior cells to exchange nutrients and waste with the external environment.
  32. Very large multi-cellular animals require a complex system (typically including teeth, saliva, throat, stomach, and intestines) for absorbing nutrients from the environment.
  33. Very large multi-cellular animals require a complex system (typically including lungs, intestines, heart, arteries, and veins) for distributing nutrients and oxygen to interior cells.
  34. Very large multi-cellular animals require a complex system (typically including lungs, heart, arteries, veins, kidneys, and bladder) for removing waste from interior cells.
  35. There is no satisfactory explanation how complex systems such as these could have originated by any natural process.
  36. According to the theory of evolution, an invertebrate life-form evolved into the first vertebrate life-form.
  37. Vertebrates have, by definition, a spine containing a nervous system.
  38. The nervous system detects stimuli and reacts to them.
  39. There is no satisfactory explanation for how the simplest nervous system could have originated by any natural process.
  40. According to the theory of evolution, some of the first vertebrates were fish, which have eyes and a brain connected by a nervous system.
  41. There is no satisfactory explanation how optical elements (typically including a lens, an iris and light sensors) could have assembled themselves by any natural process.
  42. There is no satisfactory explanation how image processing algorithms could have originated in a fish brain by any natural process.
  43. If the theory of evolution is true, then every characteristic of every living thing must be the result of a random mutation.
  44. Mutations have been observed that increase or decrease the size of some portion (or portions) of a living organism.
  45. Mutations have been observed that change the shape of a living organism.
  46. Mutations have been observed that duplicate existing features (cows with two heads, flies with extra wings, etc.).
  47. No mutation has ever been observed that provides a new function (sight, hearing, smell, lactation, etc.) in a living organism that did not previously have that function.
  48. Cross-breeding and genetic engineering can transfer existing functionality from one living organism to another.
  49. Cross-breeding cannot explain the origin of any new functionality in the first place.
  50. Artificial selection enhances desired characteristics by removing genetic traits that inhibit the desired characteristics.
  51. Artificial selection is more efficient than natural selection.
  52. There are limits to the amount of change that can be produced by artificial selection.
  53. Mutation and artificial selection have not been demonstrated to be sufficient to bring about new life forms from existing ones.
  54. Similarity of features is not definite proof of common ancestry.
  55. Similarity of features is often observed in objects designed by man.
  56. The fact that one individual was born later than another individual died is not proof that the later individual is a biological descendant of the earlier one, especially if they are of different species.
  57. Many different human evolutionary trees have been proposed.
  58. There is disagreement about hominid lineage because the “evidence” is meager and highly speculative.
  59. Darwin was correct when he said, “Any variation which is not inherited is unimportant for us.” 2
  60. Acquired characteristics are not inherited because they do not cause any change in the DNA.
  61. Explanations for how apelike creatures evolved into humans are fanciful speculations without experimental confirmation.
  62. There is no evidence to suggest that offspring of animals that eat cooked food are smarter than offspring of the same species that eat raw food.
  63. There is no evidence to suggest that mental exercises performed by parents will increase the brain size of their children.
  64. There is no evidence that if apelike creatures sometimes stand upright to see over tall grasses, it will increase the brain size of their children.
  65. There is no evidence that if apelike creatures sometimes stand upright to see over tall grasses, it will make it easier for their children to stand upright.
  66. Sedimentary layers are formed in modern times by such things as floods, mudslides, and sandstorms.
  67. The fossils in sedimentary layers formed in modern times contain the kinds of things living in that location.
  68. The concept of geologic ages is based upon the evolutionary assumption that the kinds of fossils buried in sedimentary layers are determined by time rather than location.
  69. All sedimentary layers formed in modern times are of the same geologic age, despite the fact that they contain different kinds of fossils.
  70. Radiometric dating depends upon assumptions that cannot be verified about the initial concentrations of elements.
  71. Radiometric dating of rocks brought back from the Moon is not a reliable method of determining the age of the Earth.
  72. “Dark matter” and “dark energy” were postulated to explain why astronomical measurements don’t match predictions of the Big Bang theory.
  73. When measurements don’t agree with theoretical predictions, it is generally because the theory was wrong.
  74. “We didn’t see it happen, we can’t make it happen again, and we don’t know how it could possibly have happened, but it must have happened somehow!” is never a satisfactory scientific explanation.
  75. Public schools should not teach any fanciful speculation that is inconsistent with experimentally verified laws as if it were true.
Perhaps we should got through these and comment on them - creationists please pile in too.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
1. Initially, the Earth was a lifeless planet.
  • Probably, but do we know that for sure?
2. There is life on Earth now.
  • Hard to argue with
3. At some time in the past, life either originated on Earth, or came to Earth from outer space.
  • Yes, there may be other possibilities, but those are the most obvious
4. Regardless of where or when life originated, it had to originate sometime, somewhere, somehow.
  • OK, I'll buy that
5. Life either originated by purely natural processes, or else some supernatural element must have been involved.
  • The origin of life is still debated, abiogenesis is currently the best hypothesis. Ah! I wondered where god would enter the discussion.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Altfish said:
I've just come across this creationist website ...it looks very basic so may be old and abandoned but it is useful to help understand the mind of a creationist.

Science Against Evolution Official Home Page

One of the pages ....
Seventy-five Theses
.....is their 75 Theses "We hold these truths to be undeniable."

  1. Initially, the Earth was a lifeless planet.
  2. There is life on Earth now.
  3. At some time in the past, life either originated on Earth, or came to Earth from outer space.
  4. Regardless of where or when life originated, it had to originate sometime, somewhere, somehow.
  5. Life either originated by purely natural processes, or else some supernatural element must have been involved.
  6. Science, as defined by the American public school system, excludes supernatural explanations.
  7. Science depends upon the “Scientific Method” for determining truth.
  8. The Scientific Method involves testing hypotheses using repeatable experiments.
  9. If there is a scientific explanation for the origin of life, it must depend entirely on natural, repeatable processes.
  10. If life originated by a natural process under certain specific conditions, it should be possible to create life again under the same conditions.
  11. For more than 50 years scientists have tried to find conditions that produce life, without success.
  12. Fifty years of failed attempts to create life have raised more questions than answers about how life could have originated naturally.
  13. Living things have been observed to die from natural processes, which can be repeated in a laboratory.
  14. Life has never been observed to originate through any natural process.
  15. “Abiogenesis” is the belief that life can originate from non-living substances through purely natural processes.
  16. The theory of evolution depends upon abiogenesis as the starting point.
  17. If the theory of abiogenesis is false, then the theory of evolution is false.
  18. The American public school system teaches that somehow the first living cell formed naturally and reproduced.
  19. There is no known way in which the first living cell could have formed naturally.
  20. The first living cell would have needed some mechanism for metabolism.
  21. There is no known natural process by which metabolism could originate in a lifeless cell.
  22. The first living cell would have to grow and reproduce for life to continue past the first cell’s death.
  23. Growth and reproduction require cell division.
  24. Cell division is a complex process.
  25. There is no known natural process by which cell division could originate by chance.
  26. According to the theory of evolution, single-celled life forms evolved into multi-cellular life forms.
  27. Multi-cellular life forms consist of an assembly of cells that have different functions.
  28. There is no scientific explanation for how a single cell could or would naturally change function.
  29. Single-celled organisms have a membrane which allows the cell to exchange some substances (“nutrients” and “waste”, for lack of better terms) with the environment.
  30. Not all cells in larger multi-cellular organisms are in contact with the external environment.
  31. Larger multi-cellular organisms need some method for the interior cells to exchange nutrients and waste with the external environment.
  32. Very large multi-cellular animals require a complex system (typically including teeth, saliva, throat, stomach, and intestines) for absorbing nutrients from the environment.
  33. Very large multi-cellular animals require a complex system (typically including lungs, intestines, heart, arteries, and veins) for distributing nutrients and oxygen to interior cells.
  34. Very large multi-cellular animals require a complex system (typically including lungs, heart, arteries, veins, kidneys, and bladder) for removing waste from interior cells.
  35. There is no satisfactory explanation how complex systems such as these could have originated by any natural process.
  36. According to the theory of evolution, an invertebrate life-form evolved into the first vertebrate life-form.
  37. Vertebrates have, by definition, a spine containing a nervous system.
  38. The nervous system detects stimuli and reacts to them.
  39. There is no satisfactory explanation for how the simplest nervous system could have originated by any natural process.
  40. According to the theory of evolution, some of the first vertebrates were fish, which have eyes and a brain connected by a nervous system.
  41. There is no satisfactory explanation how optical elements (typically including a lens, an iris and light sensors) could have assembled themselves by any natural process.
  42. There is no satisfactory explanation how image processing algorithms could have originated in a fish brain by any natural process.
  43. If the theory of evolution is true, then every characteristic of every living thing must be the result of a random mutation.
  44. Mutations have been observed that increase or decrease the size of some portion (or portions) of a living organism.
  45. Mutations have been observed that change the shape of a living organism.
  46. Mutations have been observed that duplicate existing features (cows with two heads, flies with extra wings, etc.).
  47. No mutation has ever been observed that provides a new function (sight, hearing, smell, lactation, etc.) in a living organism that did not previously have that function.
  48. Cross-breeding and genetic engineering can transfer existing functionality from one living organism to another.
  49. Cross-breeding cannot explain the origin of any new functionality in the first place.
  50. Artificial selection enhances desired characteristics by removing genetic traits that inhibit the desired characteristics.
  51. Artificial selection is more efficient than natural selection.
  52. There are limits to the amount of change that can be produced by artificial selection.
  53. Mutation and artificial selection have not been demonstrated to be sufficient to bring about new life forms from existing ones.
  54. Similarity of features is not definite proof of common ancestry.
  55. Similarity of features is often observed in objects designed by man.
  56. The fact that one individual was born later than another individual died is not proof that the later individual is a biological descendant of the earlier one, especially if they are of different species.
  57. Many different human evolutionary trees have been proposed.
  58. There is disagreement about hominid lineage because the “evidence” is meager and highly speculative.
  59. Darwin was correct when he said, “Any variation which is not inherited is unimportant for us.” 2
  60. Acquired characteristics are not inherited because they do not cause any change in the DNA.
  61. Explanations for how apelike creatures evolved into humans are fanciful speculations without experimental confirmation.
  62. There is no evidence to suggest that offspring of animals that eat cooked food are smarter than offspring of the same species that eat raw food.
  63. There is no evidence to suggest that mental exercises performed by parents will increase the brain size of their children.
  64. There is no evidence that if apelike creatures sometimes stand upright to see over tall grasses, it will increase the brain size of their children.
  65. There is no evidence that if apelike creatures sometimes stand upright to see over tall grasses, it will make it easier for their children to stand upright.
  66. Sedimentary layers are formed in modern times by such things as floods, mudslides, and sandstorms.
  67. The fossils in sedimentary layers formed in modern times contain the kinds of things living in that location.
  68. The concept of geologic ages is based upon the evolutionary assumption that the kinds of fossils buried in sedimentary layers are determined by time rather than location.
  69. All sedimentary layers formed in modern times are of the same geologic age, despite the fact that they contain different kinds of fossils.
  70. Radiometric dating depends upon assumptions that cannot be verified about the initial concentrations of elements.
  71. Radiometric dating of rocks brought back from the Moon is not a reliable method of determining the age of the Earth.
  72. “Dark matter” and “dark energy” were postulated to explain why astronomical measurements don’t match predictions of the Big Bang theory.
  73. When measurements don’t agree with theoretical predictions, it is generally because the theory was wrong.
  74. “We didn’t see it happen, we can’t make it happen again, and we don’t know how it could possibly have happened, but it must have happened somehow!” is never a satisfactory scientific explanation.
  75. Public schools should not teach any fanciful speculation that is inconsistent with experimentally verified laws as if it were true.
Perhaps we should got through these and comment on them - creationists please pile in too.
Click to expand...
IMO, it just fits in all too well what I have seen and heard over and over again from so many "creationists", namely that so many of them are so utterly dishonest on this that they will fabricate any story to try and justify what they believe or are getting paid for. No one could be that stupid so as to not know that many items on the above listing simply are wrong with some of them being absolutely illogical.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
6. Science, as defined by the American public school system, excludes supernatural explanations.
  • And rightly so. Science cannot describe the supernatural; it describes the natural.
7. Science depends upon the “Scientific Method” for determining truth.
  • Science uses the "Scientific Method" but it makes no claim that it determines the 'truth' - it uses that method to test hypothesis and theories to better describe the natural world.
8. The Scientific Method involves testing hypotheses using repeatable experiments.
  • Yes, ok.
9. If there is a scientific explanation for the origin of life, it must depend entirely on natural, repeatable processes.
  • Yes, that is why abiogenesis is a hypothesis and not a theory. There have been papers written claiming to get life from bowls of chemicals - 'the primordial soup'.
10. If life originated by a natural process under certain specific conditions, it should be possible to create life again under the same conditions.
  • Maybe, not easy though. We are not sure what the conditions were. We can speculate and experiment, with some success, but the it is not simple. The universe started at sometime, using the same argument should scientists be able to create a new universe?
 
Jumi

Jumi

Well-Known Member
A lot of these are either deliberately misleading or clueless. When you start out as weak as they did, who will read the whole thing?
 
Muslim-UK

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Altfish said:
5. Life either originated by purely natural processes, or else some supernatural element must have been involved.
  • The origin of life is still debated, abiogenesis is currently the best hypothesis. Ah! I wondered where god would enter the discussion.
Click to expand...
At a molecular level we see a clear signature in the DNA contained within all living cells. Theists say, it is GOD who is responsible for this mind boggling complexity contained within DNA. Hope that helps.
 
Altfish

Altfish

Veteran Member
Muslim-UK said:
At a molecular level we see a clear signature in the DNA contained within all living cells. Theists say, it is GOD who is responsible for this mind boggling complexity contained within DNA. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Why could it not be the Flying Spaghetti Monster within the mind boggling complexity of DNA?
 
beenherebeforeagain

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Altfish said:
6. Science, as defined by the American public school system, excludes supernatural explanations.
Click to expand...
There's an (as in 'a', singular) American public school system? I don't think so.

There are 50 state public school systems, and roughly 14,000 local public school districts. The federal Department of Education tries to coordinate these, through No Child Left Behind and other programs...

but many states, including Texas, where NCLB originated, have requested and been granted exemptions from achieving the goals of the program...

Based on federal models, states develop their own general curriculums for the public schools, which the individual districts and schools adapt. In many states, the textbooks to be used are selected by a state agency.
 
jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
  • “Abiogenesis” is the belief that life can originate from non-living substances through purely natural processes.
  • The theory of evolution depends upon abiogenesis as the starting point.
  • If the theory of abiogenesis is false, then the theory of evolution is false.
Man, if I had a dollar for every time...
 
jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
An argument from ignorance is not a good argument, even by their own standards.

"I don't know, therefore God" breaks all of the requirements and rules that they are placing on the most successful theory of knowledge man has ever known. So...
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Any time this comes up my basic point is that school should teach knowledge, what is known by science and not religion. I believe "God is who, evolution is how" but don't want it taught in schools.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
When creationists who follow this line of argumentation (and we don't all follow this line of argumentation, by the by) can define for me what precisely "supernatural" is and how that is meaningfully different from "natural" I might start to understand the argument. I have always found the term "supernatural" to be perplexing and nonsensical. It is very telling that the argumentation presented never actually defines what "supernatural" is.
 
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