57 Buffalo Police quit in protest

[Polymath257]

At a Buffalo, NY rally, a man was pushed by a police officer, fell to the ground and was bleeding from his head as other police walked by and ignored him. He is currently in stable but serious condition.

At first, the police department said the man 'tripped', but after video of the incident came out, they changed their story.

Two officers have been suspended without pay, but this is where the story gets really disgusting.

Another 57 officers on this same force stepped down in protest *of the suspension of the two officers*.

In one of the videos, there was an officer that started to see if the pushed man was OK, but another officer stopped him and they continued on.

Here we have 57 police officers who are protesting because two officers used excessive force against an elderly man and were suspended for it.

I say good riddance. If they don't like being asked to 'protect and serve', they should not be on the police force at all. Best to have the whole lot of them out than feeling like they are justified doing what was done.

And if the department can so casually lie until a video comes out, exactly how much trust do we have in what is said in any number of other incidents?

Buffalo officers quit special team after 2 officers suspended for allegedly shoving 75-year-old to ground - CNN
Bad Apples in Buffalo

 

[Revoltingest]

In the video, it does appear that the victim's fall was due to losing his balance
after being shoved by the cop. Could that be called a "trip"? It's reasonable.
The shove itself didn't look that hard. I also heard a cop loudly call for a medic,
mentioning bleeding from his ears.
This assault by cop looks far more benign than the one against Floyd.
So I understand objections to its handling by the other cops.

Note: Perhaps cops don't understand that there's increased danger
in even lightly shoving codgers & geezers backward. Our balance
& agility aren't what they once were. Even mild falls are dangerous.
So what they did to him was wrong.
- The shove with no/little regard for his safety.
- Leaving him there on the sidewalk.

 

[fantome profane]

And if there wasn’t video, the story would be about an elderly man who slipped and fell.

And if there wasn’t video in the Floyd case, it would be a story about a man who resisted arrest and died from natural causes. It makes it hard to believe anything you read in a police report.

Watching the behaviour of those officers knocking the man down, and leaving him there with blood pooling on the ground is so gut wrenchingly disgusting. That these men only got suspended without pay is outrageous. That is what good police officers should protest.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

At a Buffalo, NY rally, a man was pushed by a police officer, fell to the ground and was bleeding from his head as other police walked by and ignored him. He is currently in stable but serious condition.

At first, the police department said the man 'tripped', but after video of the incident came out, they changed their story.

Two officers have been suspended without pay, but this is where the story gets really disgusting.

Another 57 officers on this same force stepped down in protest *of the suspension of the two officers*.

In one of the videos, there was an officer that started to see if the pushed man was OK, but another officer stopped him and they continued on.

Here we have 57 police officers who are protesting because two officers used excessive force against an elderly man and were suspended for it.

I say good riddance. If they don't like being asked to 'protect and serve', they should not be on the police force at all. Best to have the whole lot of them out than feeling like they are justified doing what was done.

And if the department can so casually lie until a video comes out, exactly how much trust do we have in what is said in any number of other incidents?

Buffalo officers quit special team after 2 officers suspended for allegedly shoving 75-year-old to ground - CNN
Bad Apples in Buffalo

They've only quit that particular team, not the force altogether.

If they really feel this strongly opposed to discipline for officers who assault citizens, they ought to turn in their badges altogether.

 

[BSM1]

Two things (and I know I'm going to get flacked, so take your best shot):

1. The old guy confronted a group of nervous riot cops and it looks like he actually reached out and touched one
2. Within seconds there were embedded EMTs and paramedics attending to the man.

Could it have been handled better? Probably. Should the old guy share the blame here? Absolutely. Do I think the 57 other cops made the right decision in resigning this special force? Without a doubt. Their jobs are tough enough without having to second guess their every action in a riot situation.

 

[Revoltingest]

Another 57 officers on this same force stepped down in protest *of the suspension of the two officers*.

To clarify....
As I read things, the 57 cops resigned only from this special team, not from their jobs as cops.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes, they only resigned from this special force.

At this point, they should not be on the police force at all.

 

[Revoltingest]

Two things (and I know I'm going to get flacked, so take your best shot):

1. The old guy confronted a group of nervous riot cops and it looks like he actually reached out and touched one
2. Within seconds there were embedded EMTs and paramedics attending to the man.

Could it have been handled better? Probably. Should the old guy share the blame here? Absolutely. Do I think the 57 other cops made the right decision in resigning this special force? Without a doubt. Their jobs are tough enough without having to second guess their every action in a riot situation.

It is indeed a tough climate to see mitigating factors when cops act badly.
We're supposed to be in on camp or the other....not straddling both.

I'm willing & ready to second guess what cops do.
But in this case, it is far from clear how wrong they were.
And not all of the cops in that herd would be guilty of anything wrong.
We must avoid anger at & prejudgement of all cops.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

1. The old guy confronted a group of nervous riot cops and it looks like he actually reached out and touched one

Was the confrontation worse than this one (where the cops didn't respond with any physical force at all)?

 

[Revoltingest]

Was the confrontation worse than this one (where the cops didn't respond with any physical force at all)?

If one compares the sizes of the heads in that photo, the one
appearing to be yelling is not directly facing the cop on either
side. This would be different from confront a cop face to face.
Also, the climates were different, ie, one was during a riot, &
the other (in Lansing) wasn't a riot.
Which confrontation was worse? The one resulting in grave injury.

 

[fantome profane]

It is indeed a tough climate to see mitigating factors when cops act badly.
We're supposed to be in on camp or the other....not straddling both.

I'm willing & ready to second guess what cops do.
But in this case, it is far from clear how wrong they were.
And not all of the cops in that herd would be guilty of anything wrong.
We must avoid anger at & prejudgement of all cops.

Did you see any justification for shoving that man in the first place? Do you not agree that competently trained officers should be able to
move an elderly man down the street without putting him in the hospital?

 

[Revoltingest]

Did you see any justification for shoving that man in the first place?

As I explained in an earlier post, the shoving was wrong.
They had some justification, but not enuf to respond that way.

Do you not agree that competently trained officers should be able to
move an elderly man down the street without putting him in the hospital?

I agree.
You didn't glean that from my earlier post?
I tried to be clear, but I must've failed.

 

[fantome profane]

As I explained in an earlier post, the shoving was wrong.
They had some justification, but not enuf to do that.

Of course.
You didn't glean that from my earlier post?

Nope, I obviously needed clarification. Otherwise I wouldn’t have asked.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nope, I obviously needed clarification. Otherwise I wouldn’t have asked.

We have detente.

 

[PureX]

In the video, it does appear that the victim's fall was due to losing his balance
after being shoved by the cop. Could that be called a "trip"? It's reasonable.
The shove itself didn't look that hard. I also heard a cop loudly call for a medic,
mentioning bleeding from his ears.
This assault by cop looks far more benign than the one against Floyd.
So I understand objections to its handling by the other cops.

I understand the objections, and I would add that they were probably TOLD to shove 'protesters' back and to maintain their phalanx regardless of what's happening around them. So, technically, they were doing exactly what they were told to do. But as was pointed out in the OP, they have sworn an oath to "protect and serve", and these kinds of police actions; that treat protesting citizens like criminals and enemies when the majority of them are neither, are fundamentally contrary to their sworn oath. And although those officers were caught between their bosses orders and the people they swore to serve, I still believe their oath takes precedence. And they should have acted on behalf of the citizen, rather than their bosses orders.

I recognize their objections, and that their bosses are now throwing them under the bus, so to speak, because the orders they gave were wrong-headed and resulted in yet MORE police abuse. But in the end those cops are not robots, and they ARE responsible for shoving an old man (who would be likely to be unbalanced on his feet) causing him serious injury. And they need to take responsibility for what they've done. Hiding behind "I had orders" is never going to fly in this kind of situation.

 

[averageJOE]

57 cops resign from their special unit to support the slap on the wrist of 2 cops who assaulted an elderly man...

If this doesn't convince people that the "few bad apples" argument is a lie then nothing will.

And if you watch the video, take note that NO cop stopped to help this man. It was the National Guard soldiers who did. The cops felt it was more important to swarm another man with his hands up who was only concerned about the elderly man.

 

[BSM1]

I understand the objections, and I would add that they were probably TOLD to shove 'protesters' back and to maintain their phalanx regardless of what's happening around them. So, technically, they were doing exactly what they were told to do. But as was pointed out in the OP, they have sworn an oath to "protect and serve", and these kinds of police actions; that treat protesting citizens like criminals and enemies when the majority of them are neither, are fundamentally contrary to their sworn oath. And although those officers were caught between their bosses orders and the people they swore to serve, I still believe their oath takes precedence. And they should have acted on behalf of the citizen, rather than their bosses orders.

I recognize their objections, and that their bosses are now throwing them under the bus, so to speak, because the orders they gave were wrong-headed and resulted in yet MORE police abuse. But in the end those cops are not robots, and they ARE responsible for shoving an old man (who would be likely to be unbalanced on his feet) causing him serious injury. And they need to take responsibility for what they've done. Hiding behind "I had orders" is never going to fly in this kind of situation.

But don't you agree that the "protect and serve" idea is definitely a two edged sword?

 

[BSM1]

57 cops resign from their special unit to support the slap on the wrist of 2 cops who assaulted an elderly man...

If this doesn't convince people that the "few bad apples" argument is a lie then nothing will.

And if you watch the video, take note that NO cop stopped to help this man. It was the National Guard soldiers who did. The cops felt it was more important to swarm another man with his hands up who was only concerned about the elderly man.

If you'll look into it you'll find that the cops had embedded EMT's and paramedics that were better trained to handle injuries. These folks were there in seconds attending to the man.

 

[Terry Sampson]

a. Rachel Maddow MSNBC interview with Byron W. Brown, Buffalo NY mayor, regarding 75-year old Martin Gugino and
b. Buffalo mayor addresses horrific video of police shoving protester
c. The mayor says, in the interview medical aid was rendered within seconds by medics embedded with the unit that was moving forward and continued to advance after Gugino hit the ground.
d. The Police Benevolent Association (the Police Union) is responsible for the claim that Gugino slipped and fell, a statement that was later corrected officially by the Mayor's office.
e. My review of the video at

indicates that Gugino hit the ground at 00:26 and a medic arrived and bent down at 00:44, about 18 secs.
f. I note that the Mayor says, toward the end of the interview with Rachel Maddow, that "the PBA is on the wrong side of history, they essentially threatened those officers without support of the PBA if they (the officers) continued to work in that unit. That is absolutely wrong. This Union has been on the wrong side of history for a very long time, and they have been a real barrier to reform to policing in the city of Buffalo."
g. Here is a second video of the push from a SECOND ANGLE. Listen for the sound of Gugino's head hitting the ground.

 

[averageJOE]

If you'll look into it you'll find that the cops had embedded EMT's and paramedics that were better trained to handle injuries. These folks were there in seconds attending to the man.

OK....???? Are we supposed to give the cops medals now for rendering aid to a person they assaulted?