4 Easy proofs of God's Existence.

[Rival]

In the theatre world, when a play is lousy, people will often leave the theatre at intermission and not return for the rest of the performance. Realizing that an hour or so wasted is precious time that cannot never be regained, they are unwilling to squander more.

This is not right at all.

First you take the free ice cream.

Then you leave.

 

[Link]

I will respond to points brought, otherwise, people's ignorance is not my fault.

 

[Trailblazer]

God's existence is manifest and an established fact. It's only the nature of evil and sorcery that makes it unclear to someone and doubts are from the uncleanness of evil deeds by which Satan whispers and gains sway on the soul through.

I believe that God's existence has been manifested in the Manifestations of God, or Messengers, as Muslims refer to them, but I do not believe that God's existence is an established fact, because if it was, everyone would believe in God.

 

[Link]

I believe that God's existence has been manifested in the Manifestations of God, or Messengers, as Muslims refer to them, but I do not believe that God's existence is an established fact, because if it was, everyone would believe in God.

God is the manifest light and truth by which all things are defined through and get their reality from regardless if you acknowledge as an established fact or not nor is it contingent on people accepting it to be an manifest established fact.

 

[Trailblazer]

God is the manifest light and truth by which all things are defined through and get their reality from regardless if you acknowledge as an established fact or not nor is it contingent on people accepting it to be an manifest established fact.

That is true in the sense that it is reality regardless of what people believe. I meant that that God's existence is an established fact to everyone, because if it was, everyone would believe in God.

 

[Koldo]

There is many proofs for God.

I will give you some:

1. Ontological:

The ontological argument which is sound can be phrased (going differently then perfection or greatness then Descartes or Anselm) in this way:

The highest type existence is the type that is necessary. (it's more exalted and great and part of perfection to be Necessary rather than not to be)

If we can conceive of the highest type existence, we would see it's necessary type existence as one of it's attributes or descriptions.

Therefore we would see automatically it exists since necessary by default cannot but exist (1). Necessary type by definition cannot not exist, and hence definitely exists (2).

You can deduce it's impossible to remember God as a concept, as a mere concept, but rather you are looking at the real thing when you do. This is probably why Al-Hayu (The living) has been emphasized the way it has been in Quran his life is the necessary type such that nothing exists beside it yet nothing exists without it and all life is found fully in God by which all things are given life (As-Samad).

Tawhid was never about the fact there happens to exist only one God by counting, it's about conceiving that nothing can exist with that being, not about just saying everything is below him, but that he is so great, his existence is comprehensively full to the extent it's necessary and all possible things can't be necessary but it, depending on it for existence.

A reverse of this:

If a possible being can exist independent of God, God would not be the Necessary being. The reason is because his life would not be comprehensive of that life and that life can exist independently. Therefore the word Samad implies everything depends on him as well.

As-Sammad means God is full and solid, like he is filled with all life, nothing life wise exists but is found in him in the positive absolute highest nature which is himself.

Evil is like negative numbers, it's God's word/ideas brought to life gone the opposite way from his light.

2. His vision

His vision is something that none of us can do without. Who we are exists solely there and is defined through his accurate measuring and judging us for who we truly are. Who we are and perception cannot be seperated, but our perception cannot be what defines us so something else is, which is God.

There are many reasons we aren't the ones defining through our vision of ourselves who we are but suffice to say, is that, our views change over time yet who people aren't changed by simply our judgment of them. Nothing can judge us and sees us exactly as we are but God's perfect vision.

3. The Source of the light.

We are in need of guidance in all moment, the light is from God and God is the light of all light, the glory and beauty is not separate from the source.

4. Morality is Eternal.

If a hypothetical Creator can create morality from nothing, it can make it whatever it pleases.
If this is the case, it would be largely arbitrary.
If it's arbitrary then torturing good souls forever can be deemed good.
The above line is impossible.
Therefore no hypothetical Creator can create morality from nothing.
A hypothetical creator can create everything evolution can create.
Therefore evolution cannot create morality from nothing.
Therefore morality is uncreated and eternal.
Morality requires vision and judgment.
This proves Eternal Vision of morality exists.
If morality exists eternally, all levels of it exist eternally.
The highest level can only be known fully by the highest possible being.
Therefore the Highest possible moral being exists.


These are four easy proofs. There are more.

Arguments #2 and #3 don't even have the logical structure of arguments...
They are only statements.
Can you rephrase them in a way they become arguments?

 

[Link]

I've went through doubts myself at a certain dark period of my life.

You gain certainty by asking the following:

What is love? What is that it values? Does it fully see it or does guess at it? And it's guessing at it, what's it assuming?

Love assumes you have value, objective value, and that other human beings do. You don't see it's exact nature, value that is, but with love, you know it exists.

You know parents have value. You appreciate people's actions because you believe in an intention and soul behind it.

Not only that, but that which you are valuing, you constantly delegate it to God's vision. That is you say God knows it, no one else does, this done every breath every moment of your life. Since you were a baby till now. You know value exists, you don't know it's exact measurement, even though it requires sight and vision to be there. You know God sees and measures every soul accurately and makes it inherit it's deeds.

See it in yourself. When you say yourself this may or probably is not true, you've become a disbeliever. Disbelievers disbelieve because they trick themselves that God doesn't know what they do. It's funny because every part of their soul relies on God knowing all our deeds and to love, you assume there is value, and you assume it has objective judgement to what it is.

Value and something giving it that value, cannot be separated.

You very well know God sees your actions, and if you begin to think otherwise, you are in letting irrationality trick yourself out of ingrained knowledge. It's stupid to think your actions form part of who you are without God. It's foolishness gone extreme.

 

[rational experiences]

The "highest type existence" is entirely subjective. We don't know that anything is necessary and linking it to "God" is arbitrary.



This appears to be nothing but a statement of what you believe.



This is just an assertion.



Of course it isn't impossible. Humans have fairly consistent ideas of morality but there is nothing to suggest that it has any objective basis beyond human minds.



The evidence tells us that evolution did "create" morality.

Imagine if human life simply died out, by aging. Like asking everyone to stop having sex, just age and die.

Where is your formula then?

Anyone would believe that a human being as a human being, especially male claim, the inventor of the sciences that he speaks on behalf of creation not existing.

You know...making formulas to have it removed, and the answer is to force creation/existence not to exist as the real answer, and not your belief that you own a formula to invent creation as if it does not exist.

 

[HonestJoe]

I will respond to points brought, otherwise, people's ignorance is not my fault.

You're people too.

 

[Prophetic_Response]

Every building has a builder. All creation has a creator. It's impossible for nothing to create something. Our Creator is the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Link]

I going to bump this thread.

 

[Valjean]

I going to bump this thread.

Ouch! Did you have to bump so hard?

Every building has a builder. All creation has a creator. It's impossible for nothing to create something. Our Creator is the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is a standard creationist claim. It sounds good, but there is virtually no evidence that it's true.
As far as I know, every attempt to logically or empirically defend this assertion has been thoroughly debunked many times.

 

[Sheldon]

There is many proofs for God.

I will give you some:

1. Ontological:

The ontological argument which is sound can be phrased (going differently then perfection or greatness then Descartes or Anselm) in this way:

The highest type existence is the type that is necessary. (it's more exalted and great and part of perfection to be Necessary rather than not to be)

If we can conceive of the highest type existence, we would see it's necessary type existence as one of it's attributes or descriptions.

Therefore we would see automatically it exists since necessary by default cannot but exist (1). Necessary type by definition cannot not exist, and hence definitely exists (2).

You can deduce it's impossible to remember God as a concept, as a mere concept, but rather you are looking at the real thing when you do. This is probably why Al-Hayu (The living) has been emphasized the way it has been in Quran his life is the necessary type such that nothing exists beside it yet nothing exists without it and all life is found fully in God by which all things are given life (As-Samad).

Tawhid was never about the fact there happens to exist only one God by counting, it's about conceiving that nothing can exist with that being, not about just saying everything is below him, but that he is so great, his existence is comprehensively full to the extent it's necessary and all possible things can't be necessary but it, depending on it for existence.

A reverse of this:

If a possible being can exist independent of God, God would not be the Necessary being. The reason is because his life would not be comprehensive of that life and that life can exist independently. Therefore the word Samad implies everything depends on him as well.

As-Sammad means God is full and solid, like he is filled with all life, nothing life wise exists but is found in him in the positive absolute highest nature which is himself.

Evil is like negative numbers, it's God's word/ideas brought to life gone the opposite way from his light.

2. His vision

His vision is something that none of us can do without. Who we are exists solely there and is defined through his accurate measuring and judging us for who we truly are. Who we are and perception cannot be seperated, but our perception cannot be what defines us so something else is, which is God.

There are many reasons we aren't the ones defining through our vision of ourselves who we are but suffice to say, is that, our views change over time yet who people aren't changed by simply our judgment of them. Nothing can judge us and sees us exactly as we are but God's perfect vision.

3. The Source of the light.

We are in need of guidance in all moment, the light is from God and God is the light of all light, the glory and beauty is not separate from the source.

4. Morality is Eternal.

If a hypothetical Creator can create morality from nothing, it can make it whatever it pleases.
If this is the case, it would be largely arbitrary.
If it's arbitrary then torturing good souls forever can be deemed good.
The above line is impossible.
Therefore no hypothetical Creator can create morality from nothing.
A hypothetical creator can create everything evolution can create.
Therefore evolution cannot create morality from nothing.
Therefore morality is uncreated and eternal.
Morality requires vision and judgment.
This proves Eternal Vision of morality exists.
If morality exists eternally, all levels of it exist eternally.
The highest level can only be known fully by the highest possible being.
Therefore the Highest possible moral being exists.


These are four easy proofs. There are more.

1. In his Critique of Pure Reason, Kant claims that ontological arguments are vitiated by their reliance upon the implicit assumption that “existence” is a real predicate. He was a theist, and a philosopher, so how likely is it he would find a sound philosophical argument for the existence of a deity uncompellingly?

2. It's not too promising when a proof starts with logical fallacy as you have done here, "His vision is something that none of us can do without." with a begging the question fallacy.

3. See 2, you are simply assuming your argument in your initial premise.

4. Any animal that has evolved to live in societal groups, must necessarily recognise which behaviours are acceptable to other members of that society. There is no evidence notions of morality can exist outside of a functioning brain.

 

[Sheldon]

Prophetic_Response said: ↑
Every building has a builder. All creation has a creator. It's impossible for nothing to create something. Our Creator is the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is a standard creationist claim. It sounds good, but there is virtually no evidence that it's true.

It is also a begging the question fallacy that assumes the conclusion in the premise, by using the word creation. A variation on that uses the word design, as in a design needs a designer, as calling what you want to imagine is designed logically infers a designer, but of course we don't know anything in the natural world was designed, else they wouldn't need the argument "from design".

 

[Sheldon]

I believe that God's existence has been manifested in the Manifestations of God,

What's manifest is that this is yet another textbook circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

God is the manifest light and truth by which all things are defined through and get their reality from regardless if you acknowledge as an established fact or not nor is it contingent on people accepting it to be an manifest established fact.

If a deity was manifest it seems oddly incongruous to keep making up arguments of why you think a deity exists, and of course the sheer number of deities humans have created, along with the fact that belief in them is determined primarily by the geographical accident of one's birth, suggest an extant deity is not manifest at all.

 

[Link]

1. In his Critique of Pure Reason, Kant claims that ontological arguments are vitiated by their reliance upon the implicit assumption that “existence” is a real predicate. He was a theist, and a philosopher, so how likely is it he would find a sound philosophical argument for the existence of a deity uncompellingly?

2. It's not too promising when a proof starts with logical fallacy as you have done here, "His vision is something that none of us can do without." with a begging the question fallacy.

3. See 2, you are simply assuming your argument in your initial premise.

4. Any animal that has evolved to live in societal groups, must necessarily recognise which behaviours are acceptable to other members of that society. There is no evidence notions of morality can exist outside of a functioning brain.

1. Kant was wrong and even if what he said was true, doesn't do away with the argument and would be a red herring.
2. Check again the argument.
3. It's pointing to something from God that proves him.
4. Attacking conclusion.

 

[Sheldon]

Every building has a builder. All creation has a creator. It's impossible for nothing to create something. Our Creator is the Lord Jesus Christ.

God of the gaps, which logically infers the question what created this deity you imagine is real? Then you move to a special pleading fallacy that a deity doesn't need to be created, which rationally unravels your claim.

 

[Sheldon]

1. Kant was wrong and even if what he said was true, doesn't do away with the argument and would be a red herring.
2. Check again the argument.
3. It's pointing to something from God that proves him.
4. Attacking conclusion.

1. So no answer then, just handwaving because you want to believe this argument is compelling. I guess this is what happens when you simply parrot arguments for something you want to believe is true, without examining them properly, and any valid criticism of them.
2. You haven't addressed your use of a known logical fallacy.
3. No it isn't, you are making sweeping assumptions about the existence and nature of a deity, these are not sound arguments, they're not even arguments.
4. You don't seem to have addressed what I said at all? Take another try:

"Any animal that has evolved to live in societal groups, must necessarily recognise which behaviours are acceptable to other members of that society. There is no evidence notions of morality can exist outside of a functioning brain."

 

[ratiocinator]

I going to bump this thread.

Why?