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Featured 4 Easy proofs of God's Existence.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Link, May 14, 2020.

  1. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    There is many proofs for God.

    I will give you some:

    1. Ontological:

    The ontological argument which is sound can be phrased (going differently then perfection or greatness then Descartes or Anselm) in this way:

    The highest type existence is the type that is necessary. (it's more exalted and great and part of perfection to be Necessary rather than not to be)

    If we can conceive of the highest type existence, we would see it's necessary type existence as one of it's attributes or descriptions.

    Therefore we would see automatically it exists since necessary by default cannot but exist (1). Necessary type by definition cannot not exist, and hence definitely exists (2).

    You can deduce it's impossible to remember God as a concept, as a mere concept, but rather you are looking at the real thing when you do. This is probably why Al-Hayu (The living) has been emphasized the way it has been in Quran his life is the necessary type such that nothing exists beside it yet nothing exists without it and all life is found fully in God by which all things are given life (As-Samad).

    Tawhid was never about the fact there happens to exist only one God by counting, it's about conceiving that nothing can exist with that being, not about just saying everything is below him, but that he is so great, his existence is comprehensively full to the extent it's necessary and all possible things can't be necessary but it, depending on it for existence.

    A reverse of this:

    If a possible being can exist independent of God, God would not be the Necessary being. The reason is because his life would not be comprehensive of that life and that life can exist independently. Therefore the word Samad implies everything depends on him as well.

    As-Sammad means God is full and solid, like he is filled with all life, nothing life wise exists but is found in him in the positive absolute highest nature which is himself.

    Evil is like negative numbers, it's God's word/ideas brought to life gone the opposite way from his light.

    2. His vision

    His vision is something that none of us can do without. Who we are exists solely there and is defined through his accurate measuring and judging us for who we truly are. Who we are and perception cannot be seperated, but our perception cannot be what defines us so something else is, which is God.

    There are many reasons we aren't the ones defining through our vision of ourselves who we are but suffice to say, is that, our views change over time yet who people aren't changed by simply our judgment of them. Nothing can judge us and sees us exactly as we are but God's perfect vision.

    3. The Source of the light.

    We are in need of guidance in all moment, the light is from God and God is the light of all light, the glory and beauty is not separate from the source.

    4. Morality is Eternal.

    If a hypothetical Creator can create morality from nothing, it can make it whatever it pleases.
    If this is the case, it would be largely arbitrary.
    If it's arbitrary then torturing good souls forever can be deemed good.
    The above line is impossible.
    Therefore no hypothetical Creator can create morality from nothing.
    A hypothetical creator can create everything evolution can create.
    Therefore evolution cannot create morality from nothing.
    Therefore morality is uncreated and eternal.
    Morality requires vision and judgment.
    This proves Eternal Vision of morality exists.
    If morality exists eternally, all levels of it exist eternally.
    The highest level can only be known fully by the highest possible being.
    Therefore the Highest possible moral being exists.


    These are four easy proofs. There are more.
     
  2. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    What the human self over looks is that you, the human are making and stating all of the advices.

    And as you make quotes the male terminology is often expressed, and a male is only defined by his appendage and human chemical male experience.

    If a whole lot of information is expressed, you would ask, for what reason were you contradicting/arguing and stating self spiritual human highest purpose for, unless science, as male chosen attacked your life?

    For in Nature we commune quietly and move peacefully, and gather and exist and live, and be harmonious without a whole lot of information actually.
     
  3. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Evolution does not do anything “from nothing” you are knocking over a straw man here
     
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  4. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    This is all nonsense.
     
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  5. dybmh

    dybmh Just a blade of grass
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    Hi Link,

    Personally, I believe in G-d, but, I don't think that G-d's existence can be proven. That's my personal opinion. I don't think G-d wants to be proven [yet], and thus disallows it.

    But besides that, I think there are logical issues with each of the 4 proofs.

    1) Ontological Proof: This proof requires a G-d which is capable of being understood. It requires a G-d which is comprehensible with human intellect. See below:

    This is the condition: "If we can conceive...". It is required, isn't it? Therefore, if G-d cannot be conceived, then the proof is invalidated. In your opinion, can G-d be conceived? Can that be reliably proven? If not, then the proof is compromised.

    2) His vision Proof: I'm not sure that this can be considered proof, because it is entirely subjective. In addition to the possibility that each of us is defined by His vision, It is equally plausible that each individual defines themselves? Thoughts?

    3) The source of light Proof: Similar to #2, this is also subjective? Isn't it? One could argue that people do not need guidance and operate more effectively, more efficiently behaving spontaneously. I'm not saying that spontaneity is better than guidance 100% of the time; but, this example demonstrates the subjective nature of this proof.

    4) Eternal Morality Proof: This is rather interesting, and I think it is the strongest argument so far. Although I don't think it proves G-d's existence, but it does suggest that all things are connected beyond their material composition.

    Just my thoughts. I admire your tenacity, and look forward to reading the other replies to this thread.

    Sincerely,
     
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  6. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    So the proof is essentially believe and then you will see.

    That's not proof. It is however, theology.

    Just believing in something doesn't make things manifest out of thin air.
     
  7. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    When I was being attacked by falling out gas burning radiating conditions....not radiation for we all would be deceased...."radiating" conditions.

    Extra out of space Sun metal radiation forces our cold gases to begin burning when our light burning gases heat up the metal radiation. And when gas burning increases, the cold cannot hold it, so it falls.

    When I was being intensely burnt/brain prickled I said to myself in excruciating pain, but not bleeding, this must be the crown of thorns reasoning.

    I saw brown wisping smoke outside, and black wispy smoke....saw a multi imaged of various forms of male heads, human images, alien images and other strange images form in cooling. Knowing it was cooling for my brain burning ceased...and then the images moved over the ground, and then disappeared.

    The Bible says this quote is the rising of the dead.

    Therefore I witnessed it as an act of evil.

    In heated nightly attacked dreams I saw evil spirits as if they were climbing out of the body of the Earth up walls. Seen similar portrayals in movies, which I do not watch, I always switch channels.

    When I was younger I realized that burnt shadow human images existed. Read stories in my later life that said the exact human experience was owned by a lot of other humans also. Yet I was so scared, I could not breathe one night I was so afraid.

    Then I saw 2 bright sparkly lights, and heard a male and a female human speaking to me, calming me, peace and a feeling of warmth and love went through my body. They told me not to fear. And only spoke to me. Just one of my owned self experiences. Spirit proved it can message and send messages to me from the eternal to our life. Without a human form, and without a human image.

    Therefore when you apply science rationale to God stories, it is rational to quote...God is the science stone philosophy that discusses how a human male group fission attacked the God stone by machine building/use and caused their image to be recorded in that incident. A science quote.
     
  8. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Why would your proofs be applicable for the existence of your God rather than be considered as proofs for the existence of aliens who created our universe or perhaps proof of technologically advanced humans simulating their ancestral beings?
     
  9. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    Because design and creation weren't in any of the arguments, I was proving God.
     
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  10. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't require full conception, just logically side vision that he is a necessary being by his sheer vastness of greatness and life.
     
  11. Link

    Link Well-Known Member

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    As for 2, I explain in this video:



    It's not subjective argument at all. Our existence is exactly in God's vision and it's impossible to be defined anywhere else.

    As for three, it's the nature of the light that it's not separate from the source. Take it or leave it, it's sufficient as proof that God is the light of all light in terms of moral guidance.
     
  12. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    THREAD MOVED TO GRD.
     
  13. Left Coast

    Left Coast Black Lives Matter
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    4 Easy Refutations of Arguments for God's Existence

    All this tells us, even if we grant the argument as you've given it, is that there is some necessary "thing" that exists. It tells us nothing about what that necessary thing is like. So the label "God" becomes arbitrary.

    Now, the problem with the ontological argument itself, as given classically, is that it proves too much. For example, I can conceive the greatest possible grilled cheese sandwich. Such a sandwich would exist, since things that exist are greater than imaginary things. Such a sandwich would also give those who consume it super powers, including eternal life. Such a sandwich would never run out, no matter how many bites were taken from it.

    Therefore, a supernatural, eternal grilled cheese sandwich that grants superpowers actually exists.

    The problem with such arguments is obvious. They just define a thing into existence, arbitrarily.

    This is just one massive question beg. There is no demonstration that we need God's "vision" for us to exist or have a definition as people.

    This is another question begged. How did you determine that "the light is from God" and "God is the light of all light"?

    No, the above line is not impossible. People can deem whatever "good" that they want, if they have their own moral goals. Morality can only be assessed objectively if we share a moral goal against which we can measure actions. And God is completely unnecessary for that assessment.

    So the whole argument falls apart from there.
     
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  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    How are you defining proof?
    The examples you cite may be reasons you believe, but they are neither proofs, testable nor logical.
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    With all due respect, I do not believe that there is any proof that God exists because God has never provided any proof. There is evidence that indicates that God exists, but there is no proof, because the existence of God can never be established as a fact..

    Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

    Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search
     
  16. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Proof human males invented all human science terms
    Males said earth stone planet is God

    Stone philosophy versus occult ufo philosophy

    The SUN

    Earth gases always owned light

    Occult science says sun owns life

    Argument

    We ARE human

    No story ever owned us

    Biology medical healer said we own life after an Ape

    KRA the ARK is ape meaning

    Occult science is our Destroyer

    Eternal is just a spiritual advice which science says is a theory

    No different from any other where did we come from theme

    No human owns being the theme want greed human ownership a theory

    Machines are just a thought upon reaction

    Natural exists first

    Not a lying elitists human thoughts
     
  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    If that is your position there is absolutely no point in anyone engaging with you in a rational discussion of logic or "proof". Even if you're wrong, you're clearly incapable of accepting or admitting it because you believe that would mean you'd be under the evil influence of Satan. You can't logically prove anything if you're unwilling to accept the possibility that it isn't true.
     
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  18. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    God exists by human being male science determined status, to give names and ideas to conditions that he suggests needs names.

    God said the male human is ONLY the stone and our planet as a human, as said by him, in argument with occult sciences, of the cosmology.

    The original theme says, where do I come from, where did creation come from.

    The answer was eternal and in the physical sound eternal bodies O of God(s).

    Which left a space by circumstance of not being a natural language as owned by eternal. Change...the actual statement and reason WHY!

    Imagine as we can that you are a spirit just living within eternal as a mass, and you are the eternal being inside of that mass. Your language was eternal.

    You make a choice to change the language on supposition of being owner of a reasoning to infer....if I can manifest a spirit language that talks to other spirits the same as my own status....then what would happen if I did not talk spirit, but tried something else.

    We are the ANSWER to that question....change.

    Therefore the history of why any human being wants to discuss spirit as a circumstance involved with change and a defined statement science...observation and theory, then we did...own both conditions...as a human.

    Only after as said living in modern day life after the life of an APE.

    We know we did science a long time ago archaeology proves we did...and today we own a science argument between God teachers and Occult UFO cosmologist God ideas.

    When the documented status was God is the stone, only live inside of a heavenly God the stone mass body of gas spirit by evolution status....versus Sun God and UFO cosmological themes.

    Gods Laws, from stone a natural science original science statement/status.

    versus

    God cosmological themes, not of our planet stone as God. The origin of what a human argues over.

    Now I can say, I have had spiritual information and presence communicated by the eternal, to allow me to claim, it is not in creation...but communicated from where our parents were released from, originally, being after the life of an APE.

    Compared to a Satanic occult UFO Sun scientist claim, who says, "when you did not exist" involving information that would make me die.

    For I do exist....I live as a human on God Earth in the gas atmosphere after the life of an APE.

    The coercion of Satanism UFO is about believing information about when we did not exist...as before.

    Before information says, no human constantly with everything inferred by a human. Every form looked at, no human consciousness, no human body living or existing.

    Then you come to the information, first 2 human being parents long time deceased. We come from sperm and an ovary, more information that says you Satanic self are wrong in science of the cosmos.

    Then you also say and science said, side by side equal life lived in the same atmospheric equal body, God O stone the planet Earth.....how it was quoted.
     
  19. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill

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    The "highest type existence" is entirely subjective. We don't know that anything is necessary and linking it to "God" is arbitrary.

    This appears to be nothing but a statement of what you believe.

    This is just an assertion.

    Of course it isn't impossible. Humans have fairly consistent ideas of morality but there is nothing to suggest that it has any objective basis beyond human minds.

    The evidence tells us that evolution did "create" morality.
     
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  20. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    In the theatre world, when a play is lousy, people will often leave the theatre at intermission and not return for the rest of the performance. Realizing that an hour or so wasted is precious time that can never be regained, they are unwilling to squander more.
     
    #20 RabbiO, May 15, 2020
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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