30,000+ Christian Creeds, Churches, Groups? Nah! :)

[oldbadger]

I think it is better, if people read what the Bible actually tells.

Oh yes...... so would you like to tell me...... what did Jesus and his followers do during the very first day that they were in Jerusalem during that last week?

 

[oldbadger]

I think that is different issue than translation difference. It is basically missing part. I didn’t find any version that doesn’t have that part. It seems to be also in the NIV, at least in version that I have.

Luckily, I don’t think it is necessary to have the “the Son of God” in Mark 1:1, it doesn’t change the story or meanings.

The NIV points out quite clearly that 'the Son of God' was not in earliest bibles @ Mark 1:1.

It's not a missing part 1213, it is an added part, like so many other parts. Of course a very big addition is in the last verses of Mark.

 

[oldbadger]

............... it is probable that the earliest have many things missing, because those parts just have not lasted time so well. It does not mean the other translations are then wrong.

If earliest copies do not have certain verses, it probably means that an ardent Christian inserted those in to later bibles as additions.

Additions are not what the gospel writers wrote...... that is a bit like somebody adding to a Court Statement of yours..... that would be a crime today.

 

[oldbadger]

-................... the Atheism people have many sects/denominations .....................

Regards

I didn't know that.
Could you tell me a couple of atheist sects to get me started? I'd like to make that list up.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Now your point that Satanists are not linked to Satan does intrigue me.
I'll think about posting up a new thread to research all that .

Please do. That would be interesting. Because from what I understand Satanists are atheists, which Satan of the Bible is not. The adopt the name to express their stance against religion. But maybe I am thinking of Luciferians and not Satanists which are two different religions surprisingly. The Luciferians adopt the name to express their enlightenment I think.

 

[oldbadger]

Please do. That would be interesting. Because from what I understand Satanists are atheists, which Satan of the Bible is not. The adopt the name to express their stance against religion. But maybe I am thinking of Luciferians and not Satanists which are two different religions surprisingly. The Luciferians adopt the name to express their enlightenment I think.

Ha ha!
The list is building already....
Theistic Satanists
Atheistic Satanists
Luceriferians
Left Hand Pathers...??

And what about the odd Christian (here and there) that is naughty and gets involved in Satanic stuff?
Satanic Deists, even?

I will post up a 'Seeking Satanists' thread over the weekend, but it will have to be in an open forum....... I don't do DIRs.

 

[1213]

If earliest copies do not have certain verses, it probably means that an ardent Christian inserted those in to later bibles as additions.

No, it does not. Earlier copies are more likely missing parts, because they have been eroded or otherwise destroyed. In all cases, the older the paper is, the worse conditions it is. Here is link for one example:

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/genizah-4f8a2ec-intro.png

Do you think that was the whole original text, or is there something missing, because it is broken? If we use that kind of text from the oldest scriptures, it is probable that there are lot of missing parts, it does not mean there never was those missing parts, they just have not remained till this day.

 

[1213]

...But ask a knowledgeable Catholic scholar and I can guarantee he'll be able to give you a very convincing argument supporting his position on that doctrine. And he'll do so by using scripture...

Sorry, I disagree with you, but, it would be interesting to hear what they would say and could they really support it with the scriptures, without ignoring the ones that I showed.

 

[oldbadger]

No, it does not. Earlier copies are more likely missing parts, because they have been eroded or otherwise destroyed. In all cases, the older the paper is, the worse conditions it is. Here is link for one example:

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/genizah-4f8a2ec-intro.png

Do you think that was the whole original text, or is there something missing, because it is broken? If we use that kind of text from the oldest scriptures, it is probable that there are lot of missing parts, it does not mean there never was those missing parts, they just have not remained till this day.

I just see it differently, 1213.
Additions and different accounts have caused difficulties imo.
Like I asked you in post 121... what did Jesus and followers do during their first day in Jerusalem on that last week , I think the reason why I don't get answers is because there are different answers.

 

[paarsurrey]

I didn't know that.
Could you tell me a couple of atheist sects to get me started? I'd like to make that list up.

Welcome to get started to list them up, please.
Atheism - Wikipedia
Different Types of Atheism - dummies
The six types of atheist | Andrew Brown
7 different types of non-believers
Behold, the six types of atheists

Regards

 

[Mock Turtle]

Welcome to get started to list them up, please.
Atheism - Wikipedia
Different Types of Atheism - dummies
The six types of atheist | Andrew Brown
7 different types of non-believers
Behold, the six types of atheists

Regards

You missed one (which I have read):

Seven Types of Atheism: Amazon.co.uk: Gray, John: 9780241199411: Books

But there must be eight, since Gray is too aloof to be bothered with any of the Despicable Seven, even though he's an atheist too.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Ha ha!
The list is building already....
Theistic Satanists
Atheistic Satanists
Luceriferians
Left Hand Pathers...??

And what about the odd Christian (here and there) that is naughty and gets involved in Satanic stuff?
Satanic Deists, even?

I will post up a 'Seeking Satanists' thread over the weekend, but it will have to be in an open forum....... I don't do DIRs.

WOW! I didn't know that there were so many variations. Looking forward to your thread.

 

[oldbadger]

WOW! I didn't know that there were so many variations. Looking forward to your thread.

There will be two threads........ various groups of Satanists and various groups of Atheists, another member proposed the latter.

I honestly know nothing about either but I suppose that I might learn a bit ...!

 

[1213]

...I think the reason why I don't get answers is because there are different answers.

Reason why I don’t answer to that is, it is better if people read it from the Bible, because I don’t remember it well enough at the moment and that I have had no time to read them again. If you think there is some contradiction, or other problem, please tell what it is.

 

[oldbadger]

Reason why I don’t answer to that is, it is better if people read it from the Bible, because I don’t remember it well enough at the moment and that I have had no time to read them again. If you think there is some contradiction, or other problem, please tell what it is.

The question just gives me an idea of how well folks really do know the gospels

Simple three word answer....... In modern terms.... They went sightseeing.
100% true.

 

[alypius]

Its why I dont see how there could be a communicating God.

That fact alone shows there isn't any God around, otherwise you would have only one doctrine in use instead of 30,000 plus variations of Christianity.

Is there a logical alternative to the following scenario: All 30,000 variations are false, or one is true and the others are false?

 

[oldbadger]

Is there a logical alternative to the following scenario: All 30,000 variations are false, or one is true and the others are false?

Yes. It's reasonable to say that all the versions have facts within them but that they have embellishments which were added later.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes. It's reasonable to say that all the versions have facts within them but that they have embellishments which were added later.

A little facts but most embellishments, I must say. Right?
Please remember 8 points I mentioned in a post earlier in the forum:

1. Jesus s/o Mary died a cursed death on the Cross (with no reliable eyewitness to narrate it)
2. to lift the burden of the sins of the sinful Christians including (sinful) Paul and the (sinful) disciples and or the (sinful) Apostles
3. Jesus s/o Mary rose from the dead, (it is false concept), as he did not die on the Cross to start with, (it was crafted to make Jesus God, which is never true).
4. And then Jesus s/o Mary secretly traveled to Galilee (a false pretext, if Jesus s/o Mary was God then he needed not to move about secretly)
5. and from Galilee Jesus s/o Mary ascended to the skies (another false claim, if Jesus was God he would have ascended to skies right from Golgotha where he was put on the Cross)
6. (What facility is there in Galilee that made it easier for Jesus to ascend to sky from Galilee that was not available in Golgotha)
7. And Jesus sat on the right hand of God-the-Father and the (sinful) spectators saw him seated (none mentioned by names and other verifiable antecedents of them)
8. (And none of them mentioned as to how long did they see Jesus in the sky and then he disappeared from the sky, and why can’t they see him now seated there.)

And these points are the main theme of the 4 Gospels, Jesus never read from. Right?

Regards

 

[oldbadger]

A little facts but most embellishments, I must say. Right?

Hello paarsurrey.
No..... I think there are lots of facts mixed with fiddlings and embellishments.

Please remember 8 points I mentioned in a post earlier in the forum:

OK....... Let us review your points.

Jesus s/o Mary died a cursed death on the Cross (with no reliable eyewitness to narrate it)

Ah....... I think that Jesus was either pardoned by Pilate or taken down from the cross alive and got clear away. I still cannot decide which, but I don't believe that he died.

to lift the burden of the sins of the sinful Christians including (sinful) Paul and the (sinful) disciples and or the (sinful) Apostles

I don't think Jesus died.

Jesus s/o Mary rose from the dead, (it is false concept), as he did not die on the Cross to start with, (it was crafted to make Jesus God, which is never true).

I don't think that Jesus died that day. So I agree with you there.

And then Jesus s/o Mary secretly traveled to Galilee (a false pretext, if Jesus s/o Mary was God then he needed not to move about secretly)

I think that Jesus did go North, through Galilee, to the ports of Tyre or Sidon, with Pilate's blessing and taken by Joseph of A. So his friends did see him one last time.

and from Galilee Jesus s/o Mary ascended to the skies (another false claim, if Jesus was God he would have ascended to skies right from Golgotha where he was put on the Cross)

I don't think Jesus died.

(What facility is there in Galilee that made it easier for Jesus to ascend to sky from Galilee that was not available in Golgotha)

No facility available, paarsurrey, nor needed. Jesus did not die.

And Jesus sat on the right hand of God-the-Father and the (sinful) spectators saw him seated (none mentioned by names and other verifiable antecedents of them)

I don't believe in that.

(And none of them mentioned as to how long did they see Jesus in the sky and then he disappeared from the sky, and why can’t they see him now seated there.)

That's a Christian belief. I'm a Deist.

And these points are the main theme of the 4 Gospels, Jesus never read from. Right?

Regards

any
They are only the main theme for Christians, but not for historians.

There are masses of facts about the Baptist and Jesus there which are submerged under the evangelical stuff which Christians seem not to be able to see.

I often ask Christians (who claim to know the gospels by heart etc) 'what did Jesus do during the first day of his last week in Jerusalem?'. The very few who do answer still cannot tell me..... they give all manner of answers like 'it is for each person to read the bible' and such stuff. ...... but they do not know because they cannot see the real story ..... they only see what they want to see.

The gospels have masses of info about what really happened.