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25th Amendment or Impeachment, things are getting real.

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It may be a bit strange but I would prefer the 25th Amendment approach. Trump could run again after he left. And not to worry, one CAN run for President from prison. If all of the true Trumpsters stuck with him it would guarantee a massive Democratic success in the next Presidential election.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'm more worried about what Trump may do within the 13 days left.

BTW, in a situation with a president starting a nuclear war on his own, back during the Watergate time period, the question came up whether Nixon could initiate a pre-emptive nuclear strike on his own, and we were told the answer was no. Later, it was explained that at all times there was a top general or admiral (it was rotated apparently) in an unmarked communications plane flying somewhere over the country, and that both the president and the general/admiral had to give the OK for such an attack.

I have no idea whether this is true today, but I have to believe there must be some sort of provision like that in place-- I hope!
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I wish this wasn't necessary. But to help prevent further backsliding of democracy - if that is something we want to prevent - it is necessary. Social systems are only maintained by rule of law. They are social agreements that can be destroyed and upended at any time without proper enforcement. Enforcement must happen.
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
Neither. Trump will just cry to his sheeples:
They know I won the election and they know I was going to prove it and get reinstated.

They just used impeachment/25th amendment to keep me out of office.​



Let him run again in four years (in jail or out). I hope he does because then there will be three parties...
  • Democrats
  • Republicans
  • MAGA's
...because the Repubs will not allow Trump to run on their party's ticket. He finally crossed a line that caused even ***-licker-in-chief Graham to say "enough is enough".

Running on the MAGA ticket, the 10/15,000,000 votes he gets will come right out of the Repubs constituency.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
text of section 4 of the 25th Amendment:

Section 4.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
Click to expand...

In other words, if Pence can get half the Cabinet to agree, he can assume the powers of the Presidency immediately. BUT, Trump can object and can resume powers after 4 days, unless Congress agrees with the VP and Cabinet.

So, with 13 days right now, Pence would have power for 4 days until Trump responds. Then Pence and the Cabinet would have to say yes, they are serious. Congress is then charged with taking up the issue, but has 21 days to decide. In essence, they could run out the clock. if they do vote before that, they need a 2/3 majority in BOTH House and Senate to remove Trump.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Subduction Zone said:
It may be a bit strange but I would prefer the 25th Amendment approach. Trump could run again after he left. And not to worry, one CAN run for President from prison. If all of the true Trumpsters stuck with him it would guarantee a massive Democratic success in the next Presidential election.
Click to expand...
He will end up like Lyndon Laroche, a felon with a cult personality trying to run for President. Going nowhere anymore save for fleeting delusions of grandeur that many radicals possess.

I think Trump is washed up although he did make it into the history books in an unfavorable light.

Dang. His niece was spot on about him.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
He will end up like Lyndon Laroche, a felon with a cult personality trying to run for President. Going nowhere anymore save for fleeting delusions of grandeur that many radicals possess.

I think Trump is washed up although he did make it into the history books in an unfavorable light.

Dang. His niece was spot on about him.
Click to expand...

It has been clear for years that he is a dangerous wackadoodle. Those that protected him during his time also share the blame.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Twilight Hue said:
He will end up like Lyndon Laroche, a felon with a cult personality trying to run for President. Going nowhere anymore save for fleeting delusions of grandeur that many radicals possess.

I think Trump is washed up although he did make it into the history books in an unfavorable light.

Dang. His niece was spot on about him.
Click to expand...
And Lyndon LaRouche is my go to example for this. I first brought him up on this site in a response to a poster's claim that one could not run from prison. Who was that poster? It was @Lyndon ! I did not even notice that his name was the same when I used LaRouche as an example.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Subduction Zone said:
Can he be impeached after he leaves office? I am not sure of the legality of that. Clearly I am not a lawyer.
Click to expand...
I'm no expert, but I've been reading of that option.
It seems possible but unclear.
Can the House Impeach a Former President?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/06/can-former-presidents-be-impeached/
Excerpted (due to paywall).....
“You actually can impeach a former President.”

— Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), in a Twitter post, Dec. 4


We’re venturing into the void, into what Donald Rumsfeld would call a “known unknown.”

The Constitution gives Congress the power to impeach and remove federal officials, so what is Gaetz talking about when he says presidents may be impeached even after leaving office? Can Congress beat a dead horse?

This seemingly simple question is actually the subject of debate among legal scholars.

Some argue it’s impossible to impeach former officials. Some say it’s possible — if Congress wants to ban them from holding federal office again. One scholar said a definitive answer would come only after a court battle on these issues.


For now, no court appears to have ruled on this question, the text of the Constitution doesn’t spell out the answer, and past practice in Congress is an inconclusive guide. So we will withhold a rating for Gaetz’s claim and instead take the scenic route through this quagmire, laying out what several legal experts told us.
:
:
Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution, says, “The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” Article I, Section 3, says, “Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States.”

That means an official found guilty at an impeachment trial faces two maximum penalties: getting fired, and getting banned from “any office of honor, trust or profit” in the U.S. government.
 
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Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Polymath257 said:
text of section 4 of the 25th Amendment:



In other words, if Pence can get half the Cabinet to agree, he can assume the powers of the Presidency immediately. BUT, Trump can object and can resume powers after 4 days, unless Congress agrees with the VP and Cabinet.

So, with 13 days right now, Pence would have power for 4 days until Trump responds. Then Pence and the Cabinet would have to say yes, they are serious. Congress is then charged with taking up the issue, but has 21 days to decide. In essence, they could run out the clock. if they do vote before that, they need a 2/3 majority in BOTH House and Senate to remove Trump.
Click to expand...
But how can Trump respond if he's been banned from Twitter and Facebook?
 
McBell

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
25th Amendment or Impeachment, things are getting real.
Click to expand...

I will wait to see if anything is actually done in one or the other direction.
Politicians all about talking.
I am waiting to see if they will actually start doing before thinking anything has gotten "real"
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
metis said:
I'm more worried about what Trump may do within the 13 days left.

BTW, in a situation with a president starting a nuclear war on his own, back during the Watergate time period, the question came up whether Nixon could initiate a pre-emptive nuclear strike on his own, and we were told the answer was no. Later, it was explained that at all times there was a top general or admiral (it was rotated apparently) in an unmarked communications plane flying somewhere over the country, and that both the president and the general/admiral had to give the OK for such an attack.

I have no idea whether this is true today, but I have to believe there must be some sort of provision like that in place-- I hope!
Click to expand...
Military leaders are not 100% beholden. At this point, a preemptive nuclear strike wont happen, no matter how much Trump wants to launch one before he goes.
However, and more concerning, if he were to start some nonsensical bull**** about why Iran or whoever needs nuked, him stirring up another hornet's nest, yes, he may very well do something like that, because he can, and because he knows his followers will stroke his ego and chaos may ensure in his name.
This is why he must be removed by the 25th immediately. He's "digitally dead" now, it's time to act before he can make things worse.
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
We should have done it 4 years ago! Why impeach he will be removed on January 20th anyways right?
 
McBell

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Riders said:
We should have done it 4 years ago! Why impeach he will be removed on January 20th anyways right?
Click to expand...
I suspect the concern is that since he has been electronically neutered he will try to stir up trouble in other ways.
 
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