24 questions: are you a communist

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, it's just the idea of Libertarianism being based upon free market, laissez faire Capitalism. But, I also understand that to be primarily a uniquely American approach to Libertarianism, much like how it's pretty much an American thing to take Ayn Rand seriously.

Actually, free market capitalism being fundamental
to libertarianism pre-dated socialists appropriating
the idea of liberty.
Ref....
Libertarianism - Wikipedia
Ayn Rand was a Jenny-come-lately who actually
loathed libertarians.

 

[epronovost]

Since when has any communist relied solely on Marx and Engels?
But, I got 57%.

Most of the questions actually imply strongly leninism as a basis not marxism and confuses socialism and communism. Communism is a stateless society. There has been no communitst regime on the planet and even the USSR quickly renounced to the ideal of communism shortly after the revolution and WWII.

PS: I got 53%.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Communism is a stateless society.

Marxism is stateless (or, rather, has the ultimate goal of becoming stateless). Communism itself doesn't have to be (and, indeed, I don't think there are any viable paths or realities to a stateless society).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually, free market capitalism being fundamental
to libertarianism pre-dated socialists appropriating
the idea of liberty.
Ref....
Libertarianism - Wikipedia
Ayn Rand was a Jenny-come-lately who actually
loathed libertarians.

Even that says libertarianism being strongly associated with free markets is later, and libertarianism began as a left wing thing.

Libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists,[6] especially social anarchists,[7] but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists.[8][9] These libertarians seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.[10][11][12][13]

Left-libertarian[14][15][16][17][18] ideologies include anarchist schools of thought, alongside many other anti-paternalist, New Left schools of thought centered around economic egalitarianism as well as geolibertarianism, green politics, market-oriented left-libertarianism and the Steiner–Vallentyne school.[14][17][19][20][21] In the mid-20th century, right-libertarian[15][18][22][23] ideologies such as anarcho-capitalism and minarchism co-opted[8][24] the term libertarian to advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights such as in land, infrastructure and natural resources.[25] The latter is the dominant form of libertarianism in the United States,[23] where it advocates civil liberties,[26] natural law,[27] free-market capitalism[28][29] and a major reversal of the modern welfare state.[30]

What you linked to describes the basis of libertarianism having a foundation in Enlightened Era Liberalism.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Communism Test
Your Communism score is:

I suspect that my score could have varied greatly if I had answered based on what I partly agree with rather than what I partly disagree with...

Since the test is rooted in Marxist communist theory I would not expect my responses to be highly Communist, as Statist solutions are not the end-all, be-all of my particular flavor of communism

 

[Revoltingest]

Even that says libertarianism being strongly associated with free markets is later, and libertarianism began as a left wing thing.

What you linked to describes the basis of libertarianism having a foundation in Enlightened Era Liberalism.

Wrongo pongo.
The link to "History" shows it pre-dating Marxist thought.
Excerpted....
Although elements of libertarianism can be traced as far back as the ancient Chinese philosopher Lao-Tzu and the higher-law concepts of the Greeks and the Israelites,[88][89] it was in 17th-century England that libertarian ideas began to take modern form in the writings of the Levellers and John Locke. In the middle of that century, opponents of royal power began to be called Whigs, or sometimes simply Opposition or Country, as opposed to Court writers.[90]

During the 18th century, liberal ideas flourished in Europe and North America.[91][92] Libertarians of various schools were influenced by liberal ideas.[93] For philosopher Roderick T. Long, libertarians "share a common—or at least an overlapping—intellectual ancestry. [Libertarians] [...] claim the seventeenth century English Levellers and the eighteenth century French encyclopedists among their ideological forebears; and [...] usually share an admiration for Thomas Jefferson[94][95][96] and Thomas Paine".[97]


Thomas Paine's theory of property showed a libertarian concern with the redistribution of resources
John Locke greatly influenced both libertarianism and the modern world in his writings published before and after the English Revolution of 1688, especially A Letter Concerning Toleration (1667), Two Treatises of Government (1689) and An Essay Concerning Human Understanding (1690). In the text of 1689, he established the basis of liberal political theory, i.e. that people's rights existed before government; that the purpose of government is to protect personal and property rights; that people may dissolve governments that do not do so; and that representative government is the best form to protect rights.[98]

The United States Declaration of Independence was inspired by Locke in its statement: "[T]o secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it".[99] Nevertheless, scholar Ellen Meiksins Wood says that "there are doctrines of individualism that are opposed to Lockean individualism [...] and non-Lockean individualism may encompass socialism".[100]



Note that history shows that less economic liberty strongly correlates with less liberty overall.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wrongo pongo.
The link to "History" shows it pre-dating Marxist thought.
Excerpted....
Although elements of libertarianism can be traced as far back as the ancient Chinese philosopher Lao-Tzu and the higher-law concepts of the Greeks and the Israelites,[88][89] it was in 17th-century England that libertarian ideas began to take modern form in the writings of the Levellers and John Locke. In the middle of that century, opponents of royal power began to be called Whigs, or sometimes simply Opposition or Country, as opposed to Court writers.[90]

During the 18th century, liberal ideas flourished in Europe and North America.[91][92] Libertarians of various schools were influenced by liberal ideas.[93] For philosopher Roderick T. Long, libertarians "share a common—or at least an overlapping—intellectual ancestry. [Libertarians] [...] claim the seventeenth century English Levellers and the eighteenth century French encyclopedists among their ideological forebears; and [...] usually share an admiration for Thomas Jefferson[94][95][96] and Thomas Paine".[97]

As it explains, those are Liberal ideas that were the basis of libertarianism. Such as, we don't have a Greek Democracy, but the ancient Greeks did establish many ideas that modern Liberal Democracies are based on. But we aren't a Greek Democracy and the ancient Greeks were not a Liberal Democracy.

Note that history shows that less economic liberty strongly correlates with less liberty overall.

History shows it's way more complex than that, and market liberties do not give one damn about civil liberties. Really, at all depends on what the state allows or not.

 

[Revoltingest]

As it explains, those are Liberal ideas that were the basis of libertarianism. Such as, we don't have a Greek Democracy, but the ancient Greeks did establish many ideas that modern Liberal Democracies are based on. But we aren't a Greek Democracy and the ancient Greeks were not a Liberal Democracy.

History shows it's way more complex than that, and market liberties do not give one damn about civil liberties. Really, at all depends on what the state allows or not.

Libertarianism as maximal social & economic liberty predates the socialists & commies.
Only later did people discover (using advanced political theory) that black is white,
up is down, old is new, & banning free economic association is "libertarian".
And trends are what they are.
Less capitalism = Less liberty overall

 

[epronovost]

Less capitalism = Less liberty overall

Citation please. It seems that currently, the most democratic country on Earth are liberal-socialist countries in other words countries with mixed economies based on socialist political, economical and social policies, but within a market-economy structure.

 

[Wu Wei]

15% not

 

[Revoltingest]

Citation please.

Opinion.
But were I to offer examples, I suspect we'd be disagreeing over
which ones are more socialist, & which are more capitalist. Too
many times on RF, posters object to N Korea as exemplifying
socialism, & Scandinavian countries as being capitalist.

 

[Revoltingest]

Libertarianism as maximal social & economic liberty predates the socialists & commies.
Only later did people discover (using advanced political theory) that black is white,
up is down, old is new, & banning free economic association is "libertarian".
And trends are what they are.
Less capitalism = Less liberty overall

Libertarianism arose with capitalism
being integral in the 1600s & 1700s.
Marx wasn't even born til 1818.

 

[Wu Wei]

Libertarianism arose with capitalism
being integral in the 1600s & 1700s.
Marx wasn't even born til 1818.

Are you now arguing with yourself....not that I mind...I do it all the time... however I do hate it when I lose the argument

 

[epronovost]

Opinion.
But were I to offer examples, I suspect we'd be disagreeing over
which ones are more socialist, & which are more capitalist. Too
many times on RF, posters object to N Korea as exemplifying
socialism, & Scandinavian countries as being capitalist.

I personnaly think the Scandinavian countries are basically a shinning example of liberal-socialism; it's actually where this particular form of government and economical system was born (even most of the theoricians were French and German themselves). While I qualify liberal-socialism as in the grand family of socialism, you would probalby refer to it as a "mixed system" where the State has large impact on the economy through it's taxation, regulations, it's generous welfare programs, it's support to unionisation and its ownership of key entreprises, but where a market-economy is still fostered and operated where a maximisation of competitiveness is taken at heart (expect strict anti-monopoly laws in sectors not controlled by the State). So far from being shinning example of capitalism since there is so much investment of the State in the economy either directly through ownership of businesses or indirectly through regulation and medium-high level of taxation.

As for North Korea, I don't think I would qualify it as socialist. Juche is a weird ideology which I would put in the "third positionist section". It's closest relative in history is probably Straterism. North Korea really rocks the horseshoe theory of politics and economy. It's so far Left that it's Right and so far Right that it's Left.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you now arguing with yourself....not that I mind...I do it all the time... however I do hate it when I lose the argument

When I argue with myself, at least I win 50% of the time.

 

[Revoltingest]

I personnaly think the Scandinavian countries are basically a shinning example of liberal-socialism...

The lack of a common language is why I'm not pursuing the topic.

 

[epronovost]

When I argue with myself, at least I win 50% of the time.

Your subconscious is really good at debating.

 

[Revoltingest]

Your subconscious is really good at debating.

Tis a conscious effort to avoid some debates.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm slightly above 20.

Here's the explanation given to me by the site.

~Your personal agreement with communism is low, indicating that you support few of communism’s principles as presented in classical Marxian literature. You most likely believe in the necessity of private property and private business, as well as the right to free economic association and individually-controlled production. You most likely also believe that individuals are more motivated by the prospect of personal gain than by serving the needs of some amorphous social group (such as “society”) that the individual perhaps never asked to be a part of.~



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[MonkeyFire]

I'm a democratic socio-capiatlist. I believe the people of America should pool all their resources together and just produced and sell what ever they can do as modern humans. That includes hospitals, colleges, grocery and drug stores bought and ran by the American people all going right back into their pocket. Then there is the private sector where products like coca cola, and like Nike are in for big money.