20 points which show evolution is not science

[Magic Man]

angellous_evangellous im jsut trying to bring up a point here, im not a liar or trolling.. im just a botanist student i spend my life doing field studies and observational research. i spend my life in nature. yes i have brought this up a few times sorry for repeating myself and yes i did put this on another forum, but evolutionists who spend no time in nature, why exactly are there opinions more valid than mine? i am actually out there all day studying nature my opinions are much more valid becuase i experience nature i directly observe nature everyday.. why should we listen to evolutionists with no qualifications who just sit on the internet all day? i have been doing field research on my course now for 4 years... been round 100s of ecosystems and habitats... i have not observed evolution once.. evolution is not directly observable... becuase i study plant science i am interested in direct observation in this field. and evolution simply can not be observed.

You can't see a tulip turn into a rose, of course. By sitting around and watching plants, you're not going to see them change from one species into another. This is the problem. You don't understand the theory of evolution, and yet you argue against it. It's like arguing that the earth must be flat because that's the way you perceive it. Your experience working in nature doesn't qualify you as knowledgeable concerning evolution anymore than my experience doing helpdesk qualifies me to write computer programs. Unless you've actually studied evolution, you are no more qualified than I am on the subject.

 

[MiniBoglins]

That is, no botanist is going to say that you can sit out in a clearing and see a dandilion evolve into a different species within a year. You are not apporaching evolution in the terms of its arguments.

Many botanists oppose evolution. One of the teachers at my university is a creationist. Basically you are admitting to me here evolution can not be observed in anyones lifetime... every evolutionist has admitted this.. yes it takes millions of years... well that is faith based basicially every evolutionist is the same as a theist then. i am interested in observational research, science which i can study. I had to study some bats the other day, i directed observed their behaviour. In the field of science if there is no cause of effect to be observed it does not qualify as science. we observe the effects of gravity we can study them. Evolution has no cause and no effect to study, it is based on indirect assumptions. Science is all about direct observation, 4 years of observation in some of the worlds most amazing ecosystems for me and no evolution to be seen...evolution is the joke:frog:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Many botanists oppose evolution. One of the teachers at my university is a creationist. Basically you are admitting to me here evolution can not be observed in anyones lifetime...

No, I didn't say that. You certainly could have observed the principles of evolution at work had you done real study over the course of many years.

Which University are you at, and what is your teacher's name?

I'd also like to see a list of botanists who oppose evolution.

 

[Magic Man]

Many botanists oppose evolution.

Interesting. I doubt it, though.

One of the teachers at my university is a creationist.

That's sad.

Basically you are admitting to me here evolution can not be observed in anyones lifetime... every evolutionist has admitted this.. yes it takes millions of years... well that is faith based basicially every evolutionist is the same as a theist then. i am interested in observational research, science which i can study. I had to study some bats the other day, i directed observed their behaviour. In the field of science if there is no cause of effect to be observed it does not qualify as science. we observe the effects of gravity we can study them. Evolution has no cause and no effect to study, it is based on indirect assumptions. Science is all about direct observation, 4 years of observation in some of the worlds most amazing ecosystems for me and no evolution to be seen...evolution is the joke:frog:

OK, so you not only lack an understanding of evolution; you also lack understanding of science.

No one here said you can't observe evolution. What was said is that you can't observe complex organisms change into different complex organisms in a matter of minutes, hours, or months. These things take time. What you can observe is the evolution of simple organisms like bacteria and fruit flies.

A word of advice: If you plan to go into the field of science, you should learn what it is. Once you've done that, you won't make uneducated statements like "In the field of science if there is no cause of effect to be observed it does not qualify as science".

 

[Dan4reason]

Many botanists oppose evolution. One of the teachers at my university is a creationist. Basically you are admitting to me here evolution can not be observed in anyones lifetime... every evolutionist has admitted this.. yes it takes millions of years... well that is faith based basicially every evolutionist is the same as a theist then. i am interested in observational research, science which i can study. I had to study some bats the other day, i directed observed their behaviour. In the field of science if there is no cause of effect to be observed it does not qualify as science. we observe the effects of gravity we can study them. Evolution has no cause and no effect to study, it is based on indirect assumptions. Science is all about direct observation, 4 years of observation in some of the worlds most amazing ecosystems for me and no evolution to be seen...evolution is the joke:frog:

You tend to use authority a lot to try to disprove evolution but I actually want evidence. This evidence is woefully lacking.

 

[MiniBoglins]

No, I didn't say that. You certainly could have observed the principles of evolution at work had you done real study over the course of many years.

Which University are you at, and what is your teacher's name?

I'd also like to see a list of botanists who oppose evolution.

this is my course and uni

University of Worcester - Environmental Science BSc (Hons)

List of creationists who study plant science or study related fields:

Dr. Margaret Helder - Botanist
Dr. Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist, Botanist
Dr. George F. Howe, Botany
Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist

 

[angellous_evangellous]

this is my course and uni

University of Worcester - Environmental Science BSc (Hons)

List of creationists who study plant science or study related fields:

Dr. Margaret Helder - Botanist
Dr. Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist, Botanist
Dr. George F. Howe, Botany
Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist

I'll look into this, thanks. Where did you get this list?

 

[Autodidact]

Hello, i am a Hindu and i support creationism i do not believe in evolution. I have read over many evolutionist books, articles and websites from the internet and did you know evolutionists are actually their own worst enemy? I quote here mainly evolutionists who admit themselves evolution is not science.

Evolution has never been observed

Evolution has never been observed and leading evolutionists have even admitted evolution cannot be witnessed in the lifetime of an observer. The lack of a case for evolution is therefore most clearly recognized by the fact that no one has ever seen it happen.

1. Who are you plagiarizing? I have already told you this is against forum rules. I will now report you to the mods. If you want to continue to post here, you need to learn and follow the rules.

2. The fact that it cannot be witnessed directly in the lifetime of an observer is exactly what makes it necessary to use science to figure it out. There is no connection, none at all, between whether we can look at something and understand it, and whether we can use science to figure it out. In fact, the whole point of science is to figure out what's going on that we do NOT observe directly.

3. As I said in another thread, I don't think you know anything about science or evolution. My question is: Do you want to learn? Or do you prefer to post tripe that betrays your utter lack of understanding of what you are arguing against? If you want to learn, let me know, and I'll be happy to explain it to you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll look into this, thanks. Where did you get this list?

Is it worth your time?
A long list of of scientists who oppose evolution has nothing to do with whether evolution is science or not.
He's clogging the thread with red herrings.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'll look into this, thanks. Where did you get this list?

I see that all the scientists on the list are on AiG's website...

Creation scientists and other biographies of interest

I've looked at some of these and they are bunk.

 

[MiniBoglins]

I'll look into this, thanks. Where did you get this list?

the list is from answering genesis a christian creationist website, i believe the earth is millions of billions of years old, i do not agree with their young earth model of the universe but i do agree with some of their ID evidence. Cant say i have read much of there work doesnt really interest me..John Ray and the work of Henri Fabre is what i study both were creationists and both spent there life in nature.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

the list is from answering genesis a christian creationist website, i believe the earth is millions of billions of years old, i do not agree with their young earth model of the universe but i do agree with some of their ID evidence. Cant say i have read much of there work doesnt really interest me..John Ray and the work of Henri Fabre is what i study both were creationists and both spent there life in nature.

Yeah, I found it before you wrote this.

AiG is a Christian propaganda website and of no value for any purpose.

 

[MiniBoglins]

Who are you plagiarizing? I have already told you this is against forum rules. I will now report you to the mods. If you want to continue to post here, you need to learn and follow the rules.

i do not plagiarize.. i write all the stuff myself, i spend some nights doing this on paper then i type it to word when i can get to a computer. i am well read. my brother also writes articles he wrote the one in the OP, he is an author he writes books. you wont find the articles on websites. just another forum he pasted it on. its all original stuff.

 

[Autodidact]

Mini: What you are plagiarizing is itself a font of quote-mining. Quote-mining is a form of lying. It twists the author's words to make them appear to mean the opposite of what they say. People who do it lie. They are liars. Do you want us to think you're a liar?

If you like, I'll take one of your quote-mines and demonstrate it to be nothing but a lie. Here, I'll do it to you and see how you like it:

Hello, i am a Hindu and i support ... evolution.

Not very honest, is it?

There's a huge pile of crap in your OP. Pick just one and we'll debate that, o.k.?

Have you decided whether you're ready to learn about science and evolution yet?

 

[HonestJoe]

my brother also writes articles he wrote the one in the OP, he is an author he writes books.

Maybe you're waiting for him to answer my questions in post #14 then?

 

[RedOne77]

Is it worth your time?
A long list of of scientists who oppose evolution has nothing to do with whether evolution is science or not.
He's clogging the thread with red herrings.

The university he/she attends is an accredited university at least.

It has a wiki page: University of Worcester - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They seem to specialized in ecology, which fits in with mini taking tons of field trips to different ecosystems. If what he says is all true I would say we should hear some decent, (somewhat) logical, and interesting arguments against evolution. Unfortunately I've argued with people that have claimed a Bachelor, Masters and PhD in science, along with one MD and a few pre-med/med students and none of them seem to be able to produce convincing evidence against evolution. Most had trouble understanding the basic principles of science and all had a poor understanding of evolution in general.

After that debate between PZ Myers and Simmons (MD), and my own person experience, I've come to not expect much from those who expound on their academic credentials and argue against evolution.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

i do not plagiarize.. i write all the stuff myself, i spend some nights doing this on paper then i type it to word when i can get to a computer. i am well read. my brother also writes articles he wrote the one in the OP, he is an author he writes books. you wont find the articles on websites. just another forum he pasted it on. its all original stuff.

So your brother wrote this and this then, yes? Or did you write these?

 

[MiniBoglins]

So your brother wrote this and this then, yes? Or did you write these?

evelyonian my brother is well known on forums, hes a young earth creationist and a christian, i do not hold either of those views i am hindu. my brother wrote the stuff on thinkingaloud. the only forums i am on is this one and agnostic forum. both of which i have joined about 2 weeks ago. and as mentioned i dont get to post much, and i dont intend on staying these forums very long. i just wanted to put up some articles and see why people believe in evolution. i am open i am not abusive, i read over peoples posts. its interesting to see peoples beliefs on this subject.

 

[Autodidact]

i do not plagiarize.. i write all the stuff myself, i spend some nights doing this on paper then i type it to word when i can get to a computer. i am well read. my brother also writes articles he wrote the one in the OP, he is an author he writes books. you wont find the articles on websites. just another forum he pasted it on. its all original stuff.

I see. So you're also cabinintheforest and casseterides and cassiterides ? You just basically spam this crap all over the internet then?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

evelyonian my brother is well known on forums, hes a young earth creationist and a christian, i do not hold either of those views i am hindu. my brother wrote the stuff on thinkingaloud. the only forums i am on is this one and agnostic forum. both of which i have joined about 2 weeks ago. and as mentioned i dont get to post much, and i dont intend on staying these forums very long. i just wanted to put up some articles and see why people believe in evolution. i am open i am not abusive, i read over peoples posts. its interesting to see peoples beliefs on this subject.

Really? You can't figure that out for yourself?