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2 Thessalonians 1:2, language, as it reads in English, so forth.[Bible believers only.

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Desert Snake, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    2 Thessalonians 1:2

    As this reads in English, can be interpreted, in more than one way. Now, as we compare this to other verses, that interpretation might vary.

    This in the Greek language seems to leave out the 'the' before Lord Jesus Christ.☆

    So, the question being, how would you interpret this, and correlate it to Scripture.

    the Lord Jesus Christ
     
    #1 Desert Snake, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  2. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Using the KJV, version for this verse
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the correlate is found in the connecting word " and ".
    1 Thessalonians 1:2 corresponds to Romans 1:7.
    So, even leaving out the word ' the ' still the word " and " connects one person to another person.
     
  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Since there doesn't seem to be a 'the', in the Greek, [not every Bible has a "the", there, in English, how are you separating, the reference to the God our Abba, from Jesus? In the KJV, there is a 'the', however, this seems non'literal.

    In other words, 'and' without the 'the', just seems to make it two names, same person.
     
    #4 Desert Snake, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    The word "and" connects two persons together:
    My friend "and" I are going..... The gift is from him "and" her.....
    God's undeserved grace 'and' peace is from both God our Father "and" Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2
    At Romans 1:5 we read about received grace "and" apostleship. Grace "and" apostleship are separate.
    At Romans 1:7 God's grace 'and' peace from God "and" Lord Jesus Christ.
    Paul thanks his God ' through Jesus Christ ' according to Romans 1:8.
    That is because as 1 Timothy 2:5 says there is 'one' God 'and' 'one' mediator between God 'and' men.......
    The word "and" is the connective word between two (2) different persons or things.
    I wonder what a high school or college English teacher would have to say about the word "and".
     
  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    'And' also is used to include two different names, for the same person, or attributes
    Lord and Saviour,
    So forth.
    If clarity were the intent, and these names and titles, were not meant to be understood as meaning the same person, then this is a very vague way of saying this.

    Since there is, actually, no 'the', before Lord Jesus Christ, what is inherently going to make the reader, presume that this means different people.
     
    #6 Desert Snake, Feb 18, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find Paul thanks his God through Jesus Christ at Romans 1:8. Paul does Not thank Jesus through God.
    Jesus is mediator, does Not say God is mediator at 1 Timothy 2:5, so who are the ' and ' there, but two persons.
    Since the pre-human heavenly Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B -
    then only God was ' before ' the beginning, Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
    God was 'Not first born of every creature' as Colossians 1:15 says, but pre-human Jesus was - Psalms 89:27.
    God is the Creator, or if one prefers God is Creator, whereas Jesus isn't.
    Any comments regarding 1 Corinthians 8:6 because there is one God the Father, "and" one Lord, Jesus Christ.....
    It does Not say: one Jesus the Father and one Lord God.
    Jesus was Not lying about what he said at John 10:36. Did he say he was his own God ________.
    Even the resurrected heavenly Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    There is also No Tetragrammaton (YHWH) for 'Lord' Jesus Christ. The Tetragrammaton is only used for LORD God.
    The only time the Tetragrammaton is used in the King James is when 'LORD' is in all Upper-Case letters.
    'Lord' (in some lower-case letters) stands for 'Lord' Jesus (with or without the word ' the ' used) - Psalms 110
     
  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    A trinity concept
    JHVH=God
    Jesus=God
    Spirit=God

    So, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.
    There are arguments that can be made that Jesus is the Abba, Jesus is JHVH, so forth, however, that was not the premise, of this discussion.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    JHVH (Tetragramaton) is 'LORD' God ( KJV -Psalms 110 )
    Jesus is 'Lord' ( No Tetragrammaton applied to Lord Jesus )
    Spirit is what LORD God uses as per Psalms 104:30
    No Tetragrammaton applied to God's spirit.
     
  11. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    ^

     
  12. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Colossians 1:3

    Here, once again, just literally, it actually is, 'G-d, the father of us, our Lord Jesus Christ.'


     
    #12 Desert Snake, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Colossians 1:15
    Here, once again, it actually is 'Jesus' the image (reflection) of the invisible God, ' Jesus' the first born of every creature.
    God was Not first born of any creature. God had No beginning as per Psalms 90:2
    So, only God was before the beginning, Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
    Even the resurrected heavenly Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12.
     
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