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2 Polls

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by The Sum of Awe, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    1. If you could steal something from someone you had strong feelings against, and not get caught at all, would you do it? (I'm talking something big like his credit card)

    2. If a criminal who murdered your family vowed and in fact even somehow showed evidence that he would not murder anymore, would you punish him or let him go? If punish: How is this different from revenge?
     
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    1) Yes, if he owed me. No, if he didn't owe me.
    2) Punish. I like revenge, the tastiest of the 5 food groups.
     
  3. Gjallarhorn

    Gjallarhorn N'yog-Sothep

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    1. Depends on the reason I hate them, but most likely no.

    2. Depends on the evidence presented and my state of mind. Most likely I'd punish.

    Now, if that evidence was medical records of a lobotomy shortly after the murders, I'd probably let it go. Probably.
     
  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Not without some other factor tipping the balance strongly. I'm just way too proud to do that under ordinary circunstances.


    I can't figure what that evidence could be. No idea what I would actually do, but of course it would be revenge if I punished him or pushed for someone else to.
     
  5. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    1. I do not remember having strong feelings against anyone for a significant length of time.. I don't know what it is so I do not know what I would do. I have had very brief strong feeling but they only last a second which is not enough time to wonder "what might I steal from him or her?".

    2. I would not punish the person with pain but surely he would do prison time. So I would not punish him or let him go. Neither.
     
  6. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    1. Depends on the person and what they did to me to cause me to dislike/hate them so. With most people, no, but it really depends how far a person went...I don't know if I would or not.

    2. Punish. And by punish I assume you mean the Justice system. Just because someone says they won't do something again doesn't get them out of paying retribution for what they have done. It also doesn't mean they are even sorry for what they have done, not that that gets them out of having to face the consequences of their actions either. This is something I'm even trying to get my son to understand. Just saying "sorry" doesn't mean you don't have to take your time out for hitting your sister and taking her toy. Actions have consequences. Being sorry or saying you won't do something again is all well and good, but you should still have to pay the piper...I don't think that's revenge at all either.
     
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  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    No. Yes. I believe in accountability.

    The OP posits a truly dumb system where we each get one chance to murder.
     
  8. PolyHedral

    PolyHedral Superabacus Mystic

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    If one takes advantage of the "free" chance to murder, then that would count as evidence against the idea that one would never murder again, and so increase the likelihood that one gets punished.

    Morality gets very strange if perfect information is available. :p
     
  9. Alex_G

    Alex_G Enlightner of the Senses

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    The quick answer is no, but longer answers might lead to a yes. For example an extreme personal situation might coerce me into a position of stealing. The old example of the man who steals the medicine he cant pay for at that moment in time to save the life of his daughter'.

    Additionally if the reason i had strong feelings against the person was because the wealth he/she had was obtained through slavery, coercion, exploitation or some other revolting means, then my taking of it might be more justified, especially if im having a robin hood moment.

    If i take the philosophers armchair and think about punishment in this case, i dont have too much to go on. No doubt i would like revenge, and perhaps that is sometimes just. However one aspect of punishment from a deterrence justification is its effect on other people and potential murderers. Even if one could guarantee that this individual would not harm anyone else again, seeing the anger and revenge in people affected by such crimes, and the punishments that go along with murder is a very strong deterrent and control of behaviour in other people too. Thats worth something.
     
    #9 Alex_G, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  10. Trey of Diamonds

    Trey of Diamonds Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. Since they would not know it was me who had done it there would be little satisfaction in it.

    Punish. Revenge is underrated. (I have some Scottish blood and I blame my vindictiveness on that.)
     
  11. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    In the real world, it is pretty much impossible to know you would never get caught beforehand.
    Still, assuming such information was somehow made avaiable to me, the answer is : maybe. This would heavily depends on why i have such strong feelings towards this person.

    As it has been said before, what sort of evidence could it be? I don't think any evidence would convince me of this.

    Either way, even if this was possible, i would still punish him.
    Considering i see revenge as being 'punishment in return for injury', it is not different at all. I also have nothing against revenge per se.
     
  12. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Something that genuinely belongs to someone else, like his credit card... no.

    Something he took from other people he had no right to, causing them pain, suffering, distress or disadvantage, yes. But only to the extent that the score was settled and the the playing field leveled. Alex G's "Robin Hood" moment comes to mind.

    Off with his head! You play, you pay. I don't care how much he swears and vows, he's got to pay for his crime. Will karma get him? Sure, but who's to say I'm not the vehicle for delivering his karma?
     
  13. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    1. No
    2. Punish, i.e., execute. There are almost 7 billion of us on this planet, we don't need everyone. I would think that a family killer would be expendable.
     
  14. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Is #2 really all down to kill the guy or let him go? Are those really the only options? I mean, if I caught someone who did something horrendous I certainly wouldn't just let them go, but why would that have to mean I kill them myself? Are we talking no other recourse here? No ability to restrain and hold them for arrest by law enforcement? Seriously? My only options are to gun them down or let them skip away free and clear???
     
  15. Trey of Diamonds

    Trey of Diamonds Well-Known Member

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    I noticed a lot of people jumped to that particular conclusion but the OP said punish, not kill. I assumed the punishment could be anything.
     
  16. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Which is why when I answered, I went with the Justice System. Then I start really seeing that other people seemed to be talking about killing the guy. I wondered if that was really what it was supposed to be about. If so, seems pretty strange to me. :shrug:
     
  17. Trey of Diamonds

    Trey of Diamonds Well-Known Member

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    Oh I think its pretty natural to automatically assume the proper punishment for a man who killed your family is death. The only difficulty in my decision would be whether or not to torture the fellow before killing him. I don't believe in torture and feel using death as a punishment should be quick and painless. However, if my family was killed by the person it would be hard not to wish the utmost pain and suffering on the person guilty of the crime. Like I said, I have a vindictive streak.
     
  18. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    Punish could be anything; revenge isn't necessarily killing either.

    Punishing by the Justice System, if we all know he'd never kill anymore, would be revenge.
     
  19. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Why would expecting someone to face the consequences of their actions be considered revenge? When I place my son in time out for breaking a house rule I am not taking revenge on him. He knows the rules, he knows that breaking those rules has consequences. A person that commits murder knows that it is wrong and against the law and that there are consequences to such actions before they do such. Expecting a murderer to pay for their crimes is not revenge, it is just expecting them to face the already known consequences for their own actions.
     
  20. Trey of Diamonds

    Trey of Diamonds Well-Known Member

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    Punishment covers a lot of bases. One is to not allow the criminal to commit future crimes but that isn't the main purpose. The person who committed the crime must be responsible for the consequences of the crime. If the law says such and such crime leads to such and such a punishment then the law must be upheld or your set a very bad precedent. Not only does the criminal not pay for his crime but there is no deterrence to others not to commit the same crime.
     
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