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1619 Project.

Altfish

Veteran Member

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No to banning history.

Slavery history: States threaten funds for schools teaching 1619 Project

Hiding history is destructive. Let it be taught so people can avoid making future decisions that are detrimental for people.

Thoughts?
If the article accurately reflects what is taught, it appears
to have some inaccuracy of its own. White supremacy
figured larger regarding Indians than slaves, with Ameristan's
& every other country in the Americas depending upon
conquering the natives & taking their land. To give slavery
more attention seems wrong.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Agree, history needs to reflect what happened. For too long black history including slavery has been ignored or written out.

In UK we have issues with statues to slave owners being removed.
I was one of the lucky ones where I was taught in school about the slave trade and the underground railroad. Imagine that expunged from a schools curriculum.

I also would like native American history taught from the perspective of indigenous peoples and their nations as well.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
No to banning history.

Slavery history: States threaten funds for schools teaching 1619 Project

Hiding history is destructive. Let it be taught so people can avoid making future decisions that are detrimental for people.

Thoughts?
I agree. The USA will never be at peace with itself until this nettle is grasped.

Teach both the good and the bad about the country. Every country has skeletons in the cupboard, so there is no need to be shy about it. Furthermore it can still be taught as an ultimately uplifting story of progress towards a better state of affairs, if that is what they are so worried about.

But trying to shut down the discussion just suggests either a guilty conscience or a refusal to admit anything was ever wrong.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Depends on the narrative. As long as the Narrative is unbiased.

Facts need a narrative and IMO most folks remember the narrative far better than the facts.
That's a legit concern. I noticed a fair portion of what I was taught was nothing like what I found out later.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
It is never possible to cover ALL of history. There is simply too much.

So ALL history is a distillation focusing on whatever the author considers to be most important and relevant. But, of course, different people have different concerns and think different things are important.

So, yes, talk about how the US 'fought against Communism'. But also point out how that frequently meant supporting ruthless dictators and overthrowing democracies we didn't like. Talk about slavery, Jim Crow, and the commonplace racism of everyday life. But also show how certain goals, while imperfectly instituted in practice, have become closer to reality. Talk about religious freedom, but realize the Pilgrims weren't the best example of religious tolerance. Talk about Westward expansion and opening up the frontier, but also realize the land was occupied before by cultures with deep roots. Point out that the South lost the Civil War, but some continued to fight in others ways, right down to the present.

The problem is that there is simply not enough time in a school year to cover everything. An hour or two a week can only cover a small part of what could be useful information. A LOT will be left untaught no matter what is done. Maybe, just maybe, though, some appreciation for history can be produced and a willingness to learn more by going to a library or reading a book.

Most real education occurs outside of a classroom. If all you do is what is required for the courses in school, you *will* end up uneducated.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The 1619 project is history as seen and sorted through a popular ideological lens that perhaps has more political and emotional value for White suburban folks than it does even for Blacks of almost any group or category. Me, I think it has set back the cause of racial reconciliation and justice, and will continue to do so for some time, given the people and groups behind the effort to make it the standard narrative of American history.

Americans probably aren't even lucky enough for it to seriously challenge the Evangelical bunk that America was founded as a Christian nation.

Make of that according to your own understanding.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
If the article accurately reflects what is taught, it appears
to have some inaccuracy of its own. White supremacy
figured larger regarding Indians than slaves, with Ameristan's
& every other country in the Americas depending upon
conquering the natives & taking their land. To give slavery
more attention seems wrong.

Part of the article had this to say:
Some historians say the bills are part of a larger effort by Republicans, including former President Donald Trump, to glorify a more white and patriarchal view of American history that downplays the ugly legacy of slavery and the contributions of Black people, Native Americans, women and others to the nation’s founding.

And I do agree with that. I'll quibble the 'more attention' preferring the approach of giving attention to the broad sweep of misdeeds and rectifying that by teaching the contributions of Blacks, Native Americans and Women to our history.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Part of the article had this to say:
Some historians say the bills are part of a larger effort by Republicans, including former President Donald Trump, to glorify a more white and patriarchal view of American history that downplays the ugly legacy of slavery and the contributions of Black people, Native Americans, women and others to the nation’s founding.

And I do agree with that. I'll quibble the 'more attention' preferring the approach of giving attention to the broad sweep of misdeeds and rectifying that by teaching the contributions of Blacks, Native Americans and Women to our history.
And atheists....we get no credit at all in schools.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If the article accurately reflects what is taught, it appears
to have some inaccuracy of its own. White supremacy
figured larger regarding Indians than slaves, with Ameristan's
& every other country in the Americas depending upon
conquering the natives & taking their land. To give slavery
more attention seems wrong.
And we still have some embarrassing problems. And by "we" I mean the world, where even New Zealand is still having problems in their dealings with the natives and flexing a muscle of colonial conformity.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And we still have some embarrassing problems. And by "we" I mean the world, where even New Zealand is still having problems in their dealings with the natives and flexing a muscle of colonial conformity.
The whole world is full of sin.
We could cut it in half if we halved the population.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Teach both the good and the bad about the country. Every country has skeletons in the cupboard, so there is no need to be shy about it. Furthermore it can still be taught as an ultimately uplifting story of progress towards a better state of affairs, if that is what they are so worried about.
So true. And the results are really long term. We have a few million skeletons in our basement (we use the basement, the cupboard's too small) and we teach about how that could have happened. Our then sister country (which we annexed when the opportunity arose) didn't put as much value on that part of history. Even though it was 70 years ago when we started and 30 years ago we made the new states also use a similar curriculum, there is still a difference in the acceptance of fascist ideas.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
So true. And the results are really long term. We have a few million skeletons in our basement (we use the basement, the cupboard's too small) and we teach about how that could have happened. Our then sister country (which we annexed when the opportunity arose) didn't put as much value on that part of history. Even though it was 70 years ago when we started and 30 years ago we made the new states also use a similar curriculum, there is still a difference in the acceptance of fascist ideas.
Well I bow to the authority of a German in such matters.;)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
No to banning history.

Slavery history: States threaten funds for schools teaching 1619 Project

Hiding history is destructive. Let it be taught so people can avoid making future decisions that are detrimental for people.

Thoughts?

I agree. I don't think history should be hidden. I hadn't heard of this 1619 Project before, so I don't know much about that particular enterprise. I would think that it could still be taught using standard historical teaching methods and materials, without necessarily needing this project. But if the costs are reasonable, why not give it a try? We really need to do something to better educate Americans about our history. Maybe this will help.

While there is profound ignorance regarding most of US history, there are a few basic facts that most people are aware of, at least on a cursory level.

I'm not sure if the methods have changed since I was a kid, when the focus of history lessons was to memorize a bunch of names, dates, and events. Many students thought it was "booooring." We did learn about slavery, westward expansion, the various Indian Wars, the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Civil War. We even remembered the Alamo. There was a bit about the Spanish-American War, the Boxer Rebellion, and the construction of the Panama Canal and how we got control of it (because we're so great). We learned about how America saved the world in the World Wars and how we were continuing to protect the Free World from the Evil Empire.

Of course, by that time (1970s), there was some self-reflection and consideration for many of the evil things perpetrated by our government, such as slavery and the horrible atrocities associated with racism and expansionism. But even then, it was treated as something that occurred in other places in America in the past. The central message at that time was "America isn't like that anymore." The belief was that America had changed and transformed. We were moving in a different direction and starting to come to terms with what had been done in our country.

But something has apparently gone wrong between then and now. Something went awry. It seems that things we should have learned in 1971, we're having to relearn today in 2021. That's the period of history we should be looking at. What went wrong?
 
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