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16 states to sue Trump and go against border wall

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I don’t think the Angel Moms would agree with you that illegal aliens are harmless.
Then people like you and I should be probably be deported since several studies have confirmed that illegal aliens have a lower overall crime rate than us citizens.

So, pack you bags and run for the border and I'll join ya there shortly, OK? You can trust me on this, right? If I'm not there right away, have some patience, OK? :cool:
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Immigration is not a national crisis. Illegal border crossings are.
Not according to the Trump administration as they also want sharp cuts with legal immigration as well-- unless they "look like Norwegians", of course.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
When President Obama was in office Liberals said Arizona and other states had no standing to sue him for his immigration policies because that was a Federal matter. Now Liberals say states certainly can sue President Trump over his immigration policies.
Here's the gist of the problem, I believe.
Presidential elections are a rigged system. Trump, and his campaign promises, lost by millions of votes. Other politicians don't have that advantage because they are elected by The People. They are answerable in a way that Trump isn't. Supporting an unpopular policy could very well cost them their positions of power.
Overall, the USA doesn't want Trump's Wall. And Trump is finding out that being president doesn't get you the sort of autocratic power that being The "Trump of Trump Enterprises" gets you.
Tom
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Not according to the Trump administration as they also want sharp cuts with legal immigration as well-- unless they "look like Norwegians", of course.

Oh yes the blonde hair blue eyed Europeans don't count don't you know
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
When President Obama was in office Liberals said Arizona and other states had no standing to sue him for his immigration policies because that was a Federal matter. Now Liberals say states certainly can sue President Trump over his immigration policies.
Did you read the Complaint?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Keep in mind, I agree with you that illegal border crossings is definitely an issue but why should it be considered a national crisis?
Well if it wasn't a national crisis, I doubt illegals would have gotten the extensive media attention that it has over the years to where it is now.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That's not what I was asking.

Do you believe it is a national crisis? And why or why not?
Of course illegals are a national crisis. It's not a belief.

They are unchecked and unscreened opening a considerable risk to people living here to which the government has a responsibility for American's health and safety. War on drugs. War on terrorism. Disease control. Those are valid reasons enough.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Of course illegals are a national crisis. It's not a belief.

They are unchecked and unscreened opening a considerable risk to people living here to which the government has a responsibility for American's health and safety. War on drugs. War on terrorism. Disease control. Those are valid reasons enough.

How much can you be sure of drugs, terrorism and disease can be attributed to illegal immigrants? Can you quantify this?

Concerning drugs and disease, couldn't national citizens correlate to this also?

Uhm, when was the last terrorist act committed by a foreign state on US soil?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
How much can you be sure of drugs, terrorism and disease can be attributed to illegal immigrants? Can you quantify this?

Concerning drugs and disease, couldn't national citizens correlate to this also?

Uhm, when was the last terrorist act committed by a foreign state on US soil?
Well crime and disease doesn't just walk over International borders on their own.

Illegal immigrants pose health danger to US


The Dangerous Risks of Illegal Immigration - 2019 US & Canadian Immigration News, Updates:

You seem to have a notable disconnect as if illegals are some happy harmless bunch.
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Then people like you and I should be probably be deported since several studies have confirmed that illegal aliens have a lower overall crime rate than us citizens.

So, pack you bags and run for the border and I'll join ya there shortly, OK? You can trust me on this, right? If I'm not there right away, have some patience, OK? :cool:
That isn’t true. Studies show that illegal aliens are incarcerated at a rate five times higher than native born Americans.


Illegal Aliens Incarcerated As Much As Five Times Rate of Legal Residents, Says New FAIR Study | Federation for American Immigration Reform
 

Shad

Veteran Member
The problem with Trump, IMO is he doesn't fully realize he is only 1/3 of the government. As far as I've read, most of his BoD were in name only. Trump is used to having the final say over his own companies where if an employee doesn't agree with you, you just fire them.

POTUS has gone far beyond the 1/3 parity setup in 1833?. POTUS has an enormous amount of power due Federal government expansion. Consider the amount of executive agencies which now exist but didn't in the past. FBI, DHS, CIA, NSA, etc. Those are just the obvious ones. The very power to declare a national emergence was one granted to POTUS. Congress has a horrible habit of creating many of these organizations with little direct control.

Independent Agencies | USAGov

The only questions are the resolve of Dems to challenge and what they decide to challenge.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Are you suggesting that Crime and Disease only come outside of US or only from illegal immigrants?
Exotic diseases can only be introduced from outside locations. So yes.

Criminals have a tendency at least in terms of organized crime to branch out and expand. So yes, crime can be introduced from outside locations of which they originate in the states. Best examples MS-13 comprised mostly of Salvadorians Guatemalans and Hondurans originating the gang in LA.

MS-13 - Wikipedia
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
That isn’t true. Studies show that illegal aliens are incarcerated at a rate five times higher than native born Americans.


Illegal Aliens Incarcerated As Much As Five Times Rate of Legal Residents, Says New FAIR Study | Federation for American Immigration Reform
Maybe read this:
In the context of crime, victimization, and immigration in the United States, research shows that people are afraid of immigrants because they think immigrants are a threat to their safety and engage in many violent and property crimes. However, quantitative research has consistently shown that being foreign born is negatively associated with crime overall and is not significantly associated with committing either violent or property crime. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for a criminal offense, it tends to be for a misdemeanor. Researchers suggest that undocumented immigrants may be less likely to engage in serious criminal offending behavior because they seek to earn money and not to draw attention to themselves. Additionally, immigrants who have access to social services are less likely to engage in crime than those who live in communities where such access is not available. In regard to victimization, immigrants are more likely to be victims of crime. Foreign-born victims of crime may not report their victimization because of fears that they will experience negative consequences if they contact the police. -- Immigration and Crime - Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Criminology

and this:
We started by checking out the 2015 National Academy of Sciences study Villaraigosa cited. It found: "Immigrants are in fact much less likely to commit crime than natives, and the presence of large numbers of immigrants seems to lower crime rates." The study added that "This disparity also holds for young men most likely to be undocumented immigrants: Mexican, Salvadoran, and Guatemalan men."

It continued: "Today, the belief that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes is perpetuated by ‘issue entrepreneurs’ who promote the immigrant-crime connection in order to drive restrictionist immigration policy." --
Are undocumented immigrants less likely to commit crime?

and this:
Alex Nowrasteh, with the libertarian Cato Institute, analyzed the Texas data to make a comparison of immigrants in the country illegally and native-born residents. In a recent post he noted that in 2015 Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native-born Americans, 37,776 arrests of immigrants in the country illegally and 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. Given the relative populations for each group, he wrote, “The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans.”

In addition, he wrote, the homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was “about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate.”
--https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Maybe read this:
In the context of crime, victimization, and immigration in the United States, research shows that people are afraid of immigrants because they think immigrants are a threat to their safety and engage in many violent and property crimes. However, quantitative research has consistently shown that being foreign born is negatively associated with crime overall and is not significantly associated with committing either violent or property crime. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for a criminal offense, it tends to be for a misdemeanor. Researchers suggest that undocumented immigrants may be less likely to engage in serious criminal offending behavior because they seek to earn money and not to draw attention to themselves. Additionally, immigrants who have access to social services are less likely to engage in crime than those who live in communities where such access is not available. In regard to victimization, immigrants are more likely to be victims of crime. Foreign-born victims of crime may not report their victimization because of fears that they will experience negative consequences if they contact the police. -- Immigration and Crime - Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Criminology

and this:
We started by checking out the 2015 National Academy of Sciences study Villaraigosa cited. It found: "Immigrants are in fact much less likely to commit crime than natives, and the presence of large numbers of immigrants seems to lower crime rates." The study added that "This disparity also holds for young men most likely to be undocumented immigrants: Mexican, Salvadoran, and Guatemalan men."

It continued: "Today, the belief that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes is perpetuated by ‘issue entrepreneurs’ who promote the immigrant-crime connection in order to drive restrictionist immigration policy." --
Are undocumented immigrants less likely to commit crime?

and this:
Alex Nowrasteh, with the libertarian Cato Institute, analyzed the Texas data I’ll to make a comparison of immigrants in the country illegally and native-born residents. In a recent post he noted that in 2015 Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native-born Americans, 37,776 arrests of immigrants in the country illegally and 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. Given the relative populations for each group, he wrote, “The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans.”

In addition, he wrote, the homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was “about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate.”
--https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/
All of your quotes references immigrants, save the last one, not illegal aliens. The last one is incorrect on several points. Mr. Nowrasteh’s own statistics disprove his decidedly pro-open border Libertarian bias. First of all he uses arrests. The better data to use would be convictions and/or incarcerations (as my source did). But more importantly he ignores the disparate population sizes. If we assume that native-born Americans outnumber illegal aliens in Texas by thirty to one, then their arrest rate (again, not the right data to use) should be one thirtieth of the number of native-born Texas residents but it isn’t, it is many times that. Which shows that the arrest rate for illegal aliens is many times that of native-born American. And lastly he cherry picked his data. He selected Texas data. But Texas has fewer illegal aliens than other parts of the country (i.e. California). Therefore he should not extrapolate rates for the entire country based solely on Texas data.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
All of your quotes references immigrants, save the last one, not illegal aliens. The last one is incorrect on several points. Mr. Nowrasteh’s own statistics disprove his decidedly pro-open border Libertarian bias. First of all he uses arrests. The better data to use would be convictions and/or incarcerations (as my source did). But more importantly he ignores the disparate population sizes. If we assume that native-born Americans outnumber illegal aliens in Texas by thirty to one, then their arrest rate (again, not the right data to use) should be one thirtieth of the number of native-born Texas residents but it isn’t, it is many times that. Which shows that the arrest rate for illegal aliens is many times that of native-born American. And lastly he cherry picked his data. He selected Texas data. But Texas has fewer illegal aliens than other parts of the country (i.e. California). Therefore he should not extrapolate rates for the entire country based solely on Texas data.
Let me suggest you reread what I wrote because all three covered illegal immigrants in this context.
 
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