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15 dollar an hour minimum wage hike....... oh oh..

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Twilight Hue, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    I’m not for a $15 minimum wage, but I’m not against it either. I am against the feds implementing a $15 minimum wage. It should be up to each state as each state is in the best position to determine what’s best for its residents. $15 may make sense in some places but not others. Also, should their be a distinction between minors and others? Should a 16 year old scooping ice cream at a diner get the same pay as an adult. Are we deciding minimum wage is a living wage? Those have always been two different things in my book.
     
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  2. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    So you don't think that $15 is reasonable as a lower limit, but allow states to implement higher minimum wages if they see fit?

    Should employers have a financial incentive to discriminate based on age?

    If there are people trying to make a living on minimum wage, then minimum wage is going to affect living wage.

    There's also the other side of things: if a full-time worker's income is so low that they qualify for social programs for low-income people (e.g. Medicaid, public housing, SNAP), then the employer is effectively getting their labour subsidized by the government.

    I think it's reasonable to set the minimum wage high enough that no full-time worker qualifies for - or needs - any of these social assistance programs. The cost savings could be used to pay for a more thoughtfully planned grant program for businesses... one where the subsidy is tied to a company's community or economic benefit instead of how little they pay their workers.
     
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  3. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    It’s up to the state. It might be lower or higher than $15.

    Age discrimination laws don’t protect workers under 40.

    Trying to make a living off minimum wage is probably ineffective. I personally don’t believe the minimum wage was intended to be a living wage.

    I appreciate your thoughts re business subsidies versus social assistance programs for workers. It’s an interesting thought.
     
  4. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Keep in mind the $15/hour is just to ensure everyone is basically at the poverty line.
    I made $13/hour as a case manager. Or, in other words, I was a full time, white-collar professional with a degree who still qualified for some low-income assistance.
     
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  5. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    A minimum wage job is not just a Summer job, or starter job. Millions of adults are subsisting on such jobs, as Shadow Wolf pointed out. In many places it's hard to find any job.
    $15/h is a minimum you might subsist on in low cost of living regions. In expensive places it should be higher.

    We were able to afford a living wage 50 years ago, why is it impossible today?
     
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  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I was ready to do so back in the late 1960's. I was strongly opposed to the Vietnam "War" on both strategic but especially moral grounds, and my wife and I were prepared to go live there if I was drafted.
     
  7. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    I was also so inclined if when our son turned 18 and there was still a draft.
     
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  8. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Back then, capitalists still believed a communist revolution to be within the realm of the possible, so it looks like it would have been at least a worthwhile tactic to scare them into giving concessions to the working class - but that was long ago and things seem to be very different these days.
     
  9. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind Eye

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    Crooked Capitalists have infiltrated our government and write their own laws. They also convince MW workers to feel ashamed for asking for any wage increases.
    Because corporate profits are more important.
     
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  10. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    You could go even further and have the government simply enforce union mandated minimum wages for each company, or even collective contracts. That way, you'd have the government out of the decisionmaking process altogether while knowing that the interests of local workers are being promoted.
     
  11. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    Union mandated minimum wages? Unions don’t mandate anything. There’s a collective bargaining agreement.
     
  12. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    Exactly. Just have the government enforce collective bargaining.
     
  13. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    They already do. It’s called the National Labor Relations Act.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I'm strongly considering going there once I have my masters so my healthcare expenses don't keep bleeding me dry.
    And I also did consider jumping the border during this pandemic and telling them I'm fleeing for my life because people here will not take covid seriously. Not seriously considered though. But an interesting hypothetical of a consideration.
     
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I have never even had the option of joining a union. One company I worked for went to illegal lengths to discourage unionization. Many states are "right to work," which cripples collective bargaining and unions.
     
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  16. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

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    As far as I can tell, in most States unions are de facto completely powerless, and business owners can hire and fire people at will and with little to no restrictions as to their wages or working conditions.

    EDIT: And as @Shadow Wolf already explained very well, a lot of companies disdain unionization to the point of either firing employees who are suspected of bringing in unions, or at the very least making their lives very, very miserable. This is due to aforementioned freedom to hire and fire people at will.
     
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  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Pretty much so, and it's a rather small minority of workers here in the States that are unionized. Many states have passed "right to work" laws that make it more difficult for unions.

    Thus, in most cases at least, the majority of businesses operate on an authoritarian model versus a more egalitarian model, which is one reason why middle-income and lower-income wages have stagnated while upper-income earnings have soared in recent decades. Alan Greenspan warned us that this arrangement is very harmful for the country as the wealthy have the "rules" stacked in their favor in a "Let them eat cake!" manner.
     
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  18. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind Eye

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    At the end of the day, corporations despise unions because paying workers more hurts profits.
    This goes against the Capitalist model.

    Take a look at In-N-Out Burger and their business model for paying employees. This employer is doing the right thing. "The focus is on customer first, employees second and growth last."

    In-N-Out isn’t your ordinary Fast Food Burger Chain - Technology and Operations Management.
    In-N-Out Burger: “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication” - Technology and Operations Management
     
    #118 tytlyf, Mar 8, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  19. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    Companies discourage unions. That doesn’t mean they’re not an option. If the company did something illegal, contact the NLRB.
     
  20. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    Anecdotal stories aren’t reality. Like I told her, contact the NLRB.
     
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