144,000?

[nutshell]

Are you saying the holy spirt revealed this idea to you and that you are a prophet?

I apologize...I didn't mean to take us off topic.

Lets stay on topic (144,000), super mod.

 

[robtex]

I apologize...I didn't mean to take us off topic.

Lets stay on topic (144,000), super mod.

ok sorry. :sorry1:

 

[may]

Well then of course according to your position only JW's will be in Heaven since your the only ones on the planet that have not defiled themselves with false religion.

How is it that your version of beliefs only sprang up in the late 1800's ? Where was all this hiding for the last few thousand years ?

Also if only 144,00 JW's get Heaven because they are undefiled with false religion how come there is no room in that vast universe for the rest of your sect ? I mean to say that at present you have 6 million or so ? They aren't defiled with false religion since they also are believers - so the conclusion is your interpetation doesn't make sense.

the rest of the ones who are righteous in Gods eyes will inherit the earth.

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace... psalm 37;11

(Matthew 5:5) "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
​

(Revelation 21:3) With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. ....And God himself will be with them...............so even though its only 144,000 that are going to heaven to rule as kings and priests with Jesus ,the rest will gain great blessing on the earth , when things are done Gods way great things are possible.............. Gods people have always been around but they have down through the centuries been hidden from view ,because the counterfiet christians took over (weeds) but in the conclusion of a system of things the weeds have been identiefied. and the true christians have grown in knowledge.
"And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."Daniel 12;4

 

[yippityyak]

What I want to know is why on earth are any of us trying to follow whatever religion we are supporters or followers of if there are only going to be 144 000 in Heaven? And if JW's believe this then why do they continue in their faith if it is pointless?

These sort of things remind me again why I dont know what to believe, because either it is ludicrious and religion is pointless if it is true, and we have no way of changing God's mind by good deeds. Or people need to stop making up these stories!

 

[michel]

What I want to know is why on earth are any of us trying to follow whatever religion we are supporters or followers of if there are only going to be 144 000 in Heaven? And if JW's believe this then why do they continue in their faith if it is pointless?

These sort of things remind me again why I dont know what to believe, because either it is ludicrious and religion is pointless if it is true, and we have no way of changing God's mind by good deeds. Or people need to stop making up these stories!

I can understand that; the only thing you can do is to follow what your heart tells you is right.....

Maybe that is why my 'brand' of Christianity includes so many other beliefs.

 

[may]

What I want to know is why on earth are any of us trying to follow whatever religion we are supporters or followers of if there are only going to be 144 000 in Heaven? And if JW's believe this then why do they continue in their faith if it is pointless?

These sort of things remind me again why I dont know what to believe, because either it is ludicrious and religion is pointless if it is true, and we have no way of changing God's mind by good deeds. Or people need to stop making up these stories!

my hope is to live forever on a paradise earth , this earth is not a paradise at the momment , but when it is it will be the best . just because i am not going to heaven does not mean that i have no hope, humans are ruining the earth now , but when things are done Gods way it will be a paradise filled with people who are peacable , great things are ahead and we wont have the enemy DEATH to contend with , we will live on the earth foever ,with no old age to contend with also.so its not pointless great blessings are ahead for those who want to live in paradise . and Jehovah is gathering a GREAT CROWD to be there REVELATION 7;9-10

 

[BM5]

Well May I can see that you are fully convinced and sound sincere.

As far as I am concerned the counterfeit Christians took over the scene when Saul of Tarsus came along. But then again ALL organized Christianity including your sect accepts him as genuine. Not so here !

But I know that Yahweh has a plan for your sect in the last days and hope that you and all the just members of the JW's who will eventually be converted to the real truth will have the courage to do what is asked of them.

Bye for now on this thread at least.

 

[wmam]

As far as I am concerned the counterfeit Christians took over the scene when Saul of Tarsus came along. But then again ALL organized Christianity including your sect accepts him as genuine. Not so here !

I'm curious as to why you believe that.

 

[cardero]

and we wont have the enemy DEATH to contend with

I'm curious as to why you believe that.

 

[BM5]

I'm curious as to why you believe that.

It's off topic for now but we can get to it later ok ?

 

[BM5]

Actually May I have changed my mind about continuing on with this thread if your willing ?

I have a Douay version from 1899 and the list of the 12 tribes in Revelation is as follows : taken from chapter 7 :

1. Juda.
2.Ruben
3.Gad
4.Aser
5.Nepthali
6.Manasees
7.Simeon
8.Levi
9.Issachar
10.Zabulon
11.Joseph
12.Benjamin

How about your list. I know that the JW's have changed a word or two in the past to bolster their position like in John 1 but how about your list of the 12,000 from 12 tribes compared to this list.

 

[wmam]

It's off topic for now but we can get to it later ok ?

Being it has to do with your personal belief then I would suggest PM's if that is o.k. with you?

 

[BM5]

Being it has to do with your personal belief then I would suggest PM's if that is o.k. with you?

Everything I say here is personal belief and true to my heart. It is up to anyone who reads my stuff to judge whether I am true or not.

 

[may]

I'm curious as to why you believe that.

The prophet Isaiah declared that Jehovah God "will actually swallow up death forever." (Isaiah 25:8) The apostle John was given a vision of the time when obedient mankind will experience freedom from pain and death. Yes, "God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."—Revelation 21:1-4.​

The Scriptures plainly state that death is "the last enemy" that will be destroyed.
As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.
(1 Corinthians 15:26)
He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it].
(Isaiah 25:8)

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will reside forever upon it.psalm 37;29
The sting producing death is sin (1Co 15:56), and thus all having sin and its accompanying imperfection have death working in their bodies. (Ro 7:13, 23, 24) The abolition of death, therefore, would require the abolition of that which produces death: sin. By the removal of the last trace of sin from obedient mankind, the authority of death will be abolished and death itself will be destroyed, and this is to be accomplished during the reign of Christ. (1Co 15:24-26) Thereby death, brought upon the human race by Adam’s transgression, "will be no more." (Ro 5:12; Re 21:3, 4) Its destruction is figuratively likened to its being hurled into a "lake of fire."—Re 20:14; it will be swallowed up forever gone for good .

 

[may]

Actually May I have changed my mind about continuing on with this thread if your willing ?

I know that the JW's have changed a word or two in the past to bolster their position like in John 1

the bible harmonizes throughout when the right meaning is put into the translation of the bible , but maybe that is for a different thread

 

[may]

Actually May I have changed my mind about continuing on with this thread if your willing ?

I have a Douay version from 1899 and the list of the 12 tribes in Revelation is as follows : taken from chapter 7 :

1. Juda.
2.Ruben
3.Gad
4.Aser
5.Nepthali
6.Manasees
7.Simeon
8.Levi
9.Issachar
10.Zabulon
11.Joseph
12.Benjamin

How about your list. .

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:​

5​

Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed;​

out of the tribe of Reu´ben twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand;​

6​

out of the tribe of Ash´er twelve thousand;​

out of the tribe of Naph´ta·li twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Ma·nas´seh twelve thousand;​

7​

out of the tribe of Sim´e·on twelve thousand;​

out of the tribe of Le´vi twelve thousand;
out of the tribe of Is´sa·char twelve thousand;​

8​

out of the tribe of Zeb´u·lun twelve thousand;​

out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand;​

out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.NWT it is easy to look up what the NWT says it is online, here is the link
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

 

[may]

(Matthew 24:31) And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.
(Romans 2:29) But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and [his] circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.

 

[cardero]

The prophet Isaiah declared that Jehovah God "will actually swallow up death forever." (Isaiah 25:8) The apostle John was given a vision of the time when obedient mankind will experience freedom from pain and death. Yes, "God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."—Revelation 21:1-4.​

The Scriptures plainly state that death is "the last enemy" that will be destroyed.
As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.
(1 Corinthians 15:26)
He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it].
(Isaiah 25:8)

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will reside forever upon it.psalm 37;29
The sting producing death is sin (1Co 15:56), and thus all having sin and its accompanying imperfection have death working in their bodies. (Ro 7:13, 23, 24) The abolition of death, therefore, would require the abolition of that which produces death: sin. By the removal of the last trace of sin from obedient mankind, the authority of death will be abolished and death itself will be destroyed, and this is to be accomplished during the reign of Christ. (1Co 15:24-26) Thereby death, brought upon the human race by Adam’s transgression, "will be no more." (Ro 5:12; Re 21:3, 4) Its destruction is figuratively likened to its being hurled into a "lake of fire."—Re 20:14; it will be swallowed up forever gone for good .

Good answer, I have never judged death as enemy or friend but as something that was a Natural part of our lives. I guess when we have all lived with it for most of our lives we eventually grow accustomed to it.

 

[may]

Good answer, I have never judged death as enemy or friend but as something that was a Natural part of our lives. I guess when we have all lived with it for most of our lives we eventually grow accustomed to it.

yes i agree ,we have never known anything else , but i always think to myself if i was in perfect health mind and body and never had the aging prosess coming on me , when would be the time when i would say ok, i have had enough now i think i would like to die tomorrow, we wouldent say it , we were created to live for ever , it is this world as it is now with all of the problems that go along with it that give some the thoughts of ending it all , but if the earth was a paradise with perfect youthful health we would want to live forever always learning more from our creator,. at the momment we have to cram everything in a short space of time. because we dont last very long. i like the first part of this verse in the bible it says it all
Everything he has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart, Ecclesiastes 3;11 as we all know it was not Gods original purpose for man to die , just because satan has put a spanner in the works does not mean that Gods original purpose has failed, he has it all in hand to give us back everlasting life and Jesus plays a very big part in that purpose.
For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord romans 6;23

 

[may]

And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads." (Revelation 14:1)
"the Mount Zion" here represents the exalted position of Jesus and his joint heirs, who make up heavenly Jerusalem, which is the Kingdom. (Hebrews 12:22, 28; Ephesians 3:6) yes Jesus is exalted ,he has been given the kingship of Gods kingdom Daniel 7;13-14 this kingdom is all set up in the heavens DANIEL 2;44 And this heavenly kingdom was established in 1914 inline with bible prophecy and chronology, and things are moving foreward at a great pace in this time of the end.
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come matthew 24;14 many people are led to believe that the 1914 date is something that Jehovahs witnesses have made up, but bible prophecy is now well along and we have been in the Lords day since that date of 1914 ,yes its all happening in this time of the end .dont let anyone stop you from gaining acurrate knowledge about the bible , satan is very ANGRY that he has been thrown out of the heavenly kingdom , and nolonger has Gods favour, so he is angry with anyone on the earth who upholds that heavenly kingdom . that is why there is Great oposition to anyone who upholds the heavenly kingdom .
On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time. revelation 12;12
Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child. revelation 12;13 the male child spoken of here in the book of revelation is not Jesus as some say , but is GODS KINGDOM that was born in 1914 , and anyone who upholds that newly born kingdom will be a target for satan
And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.............. revelation 12;17 yes Jesus is now a reining king in the heavenly kingdom, the woman has given birth and this child now has Gods protection . but those who uphold this kingdom are getting great oposition .
And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel."........ this first ever prophecy in the bible is an ongoing thing .Genesis 3;15 the theme of the bible from Genesis to revelation is the theme of Gods kingdom goverment, yes we are living in thrilling times indeed ,we are now well along into bible prophecy its all happening . my hope is to live on a paradise earth with the heavenly kingdom goverment ruling over the earth . and i have got my symbolic palm branch in my hand waving like mad. revelation 7;9-10
"‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. matthew 6;9