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11 yr old asks: What is Scientology?

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
My 11 year old mathematician and science freak son left his extension studies course today asking me, "what is scientology"?



I gave him a vague answer based on my (limited) understanding of Scientology along the lines of: Scientology is an American religion started by a writer of science fiction about 100 years ago...they believe amongst other things that all inhabitants of Earth are descendents of aliens that crash landed in volcano at some time in the past.


I didn't have time to explain to my son reasons why I don't think Scientology is a proper religion, which is what I think.



It seems from the information from Wikipedia below that I was somewhat accurate in my description of Scientology today.



Although I personally consider Scientology as not qualifying as a religion, why is Christianity considered any more a religion than Scientology?


In fact, what is a "religion"? Does any personal belief system that may be held qualify?





"The Church of Scientology holds that at the higher levels of initiation ("OT levels"), mystical teachings are imparted that may be harmful to unprepared readers. These teachings are kept secret from members who have not reached these levels. The church says that the secrecy is warranted to keep its materials' use in context and to protect its members from being exposed to materials they are not yet prepared for.[102]

Scientology cruise ship Freewinds


These are the OT levels, the levels above Clear, whose contents are guarded within Scientology. The OT level teachings include accounts of various cosmic catastrophes that befell the thetans.[140] Hubbard described these early events collectively as "space opera".
In the OT levels, Hubbard explains how to reverse the effects of past-life trauma patterns that supposedly extend millions of years into the past.[141] Among these advanced teachings is the story of Xenu (sometimes Xemu), introduced as the tyrant ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy". According to this story, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes. The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects"
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Well, Christianity doesn't refer to a single organization, nor can it be said to have definitely been created as a scam.

Scientology has proven itself time and time again to be a single organization that seeks to scam its followers, as reported by virtually all ex-members.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Scientology is begun by E. Hubbard who writes a book called Dianetics in which he proposes that the ideal state for human beings is one in which no verbal thoughts occur in our heads. He calls this state 'Clear', and members of his church seek to obtain high mental/spiritual states using electronic devices. The church provides sessions with these devices or sells them (I'm not sure which). Members are rated according to their mental state though its not clear by what formula this is accomplished. The Church of Scientology is highly secretive about its inner workings and attempts to stop the media from reporting on its activities. The Church of Scientology says that humanity does not begin on Earth but comes from planets far away, and there is a long story about it that I'm not familiar with.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And just how is Scientology loopier than any other religion when you make a side by side comparison?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
And just how is Scientology loopier than any other religion when you make a side by side comparison?

Religions actually vary wildly in worth but most any parameter of choice one uses.

Scientology is loopier than many, and certainly far loopier than common sense advises.


As for the OP questions, there is hardly a consensus about what a religion is, or even if it is a good thing. But I think it would be wise to clarify to your son that not all of them are good company.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Be warned that it was apparently created out of whole cloth as the result of a bar bet over whether or not the individual could create a new religion.


Bruce
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Scientology is loopier than many, and certainly far loopier than common sense advises.
Sounds like it fits right in with all the world's great & less great religions.
So it seems wrong to bash Scientology any more than the normal ones, Xianity, Judaism or FSM.
Not everyone wants or needs the cold & sterile rationalism of the Revoltingifarian.
 

RedJamaX

Active Member
Scientology is begun by E. Hubbard who writes a book called Dianetics in which he proposes that the ideal state for human beings is one in which no verbal thoughts occur in our heads. He calls this state 'Clear', and members of his church seek to obtain high mental/spiritual states using electronic devices.

you forgot to mention that for each level progression obtained... it requires a certain "test", as well as a monetary contribution in the "thousands" which increases with each ascension.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
And just how is Scientology loopier than any other religion when you make a side by side comparison?
Totally understand what you're saying here, and yet I don't see all religions as equals. In the first place religions are really the worst when the leaders aren't believers themselves, and that is how I see Scientology. E. Hubbard told his friends that he was going to invent a religion, supposedly. I've never heard of any religion that has a record of its founder saying something like that. A lot of Christian ministers believe their own religion. A lot of Imams believe in Islam, and a lot of Hindu priests believe in the Vedas.

The thing is (and you may find this hard to accept) that you aren't actually the revoltingest.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Totally understand what you're saying here, and yet I don't see all religions as equals. In the first place religions are really the worst when the leaders aren't believers themselves, and that is how I see Scientology. E. Hubbard told his friends that he was going to invent a religion, supposedly. I've never heard of any religion that has a record of its founder saying something like that. A lot of Christian ministers believe their own religion. A lot of Imams believe in Islam, and a lot of Hindu priests believe in the Vedas.
Is there proof that Jesus & Muhammad didn't once sit around a table with
buds & brewskis making a bar bet about the success of their latest invention?
Just look at their books...do they make any more sense?
 
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enaidealukal

Well-Known Member
As for the OP questions, there is hardly a consensus about what a religion is...
Indeed- an acceptable generic definition of religion has escaped theorists for centuries. I think religion is an perfect exemplar of Wittgenstein's (brilliant) notion of "family resemblances"- the point being that there is no one single element in virtue of which something qualifies as a religion. But I can't say it nearly as well as he, so I'll just quote the master in one of the most philosophically significant and famous passages ever written-


"I am saying that these phenomena have no one thing in common which makes us use the same word for all, but that they are related to one another in many different ways... Don't say: "There must be something common"... but look and see whether there is anything common to all. For if you look at them you will not see something that is common to all, but similarities, relationships, and a whole series of them at that...And the result of this examination is: we see a complicated network of similarities overlapping and cries-crossing: sometimes overall similarities.

I can think of no better expression to characterize these similarities than "family resemblances"; for the various resemblances between members of a family: build, features, colour of eyes, gait, temperament, etc. etc. overlap and cries-cross in the same way." (Philosophical Investigations, 66-7)
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
Is there proof that Jesus & Muhammad didn't once sit around a table with
buds & brewskis making a bar bet about the success of their latest invention?
Just look at their books...do they make any more sense?
I won't speak for Muhammed but its beyond reasonable doubt that Scientology has leadership that doesn't believe what it is preaching, which to me seems evil. I believe in people though. I believe a lot of people who are paying the Scientology fees really believe in it. Their faith makes it a religion but not equal to religion.

Jesus? For those who are deeply into the study of Christianity I think it becomes obvious that Jesus didn't do that...or that Paul didn't or whoever. Christianity began with a mythology, but it was honest--more of an identity than a mythology, more like a fraternity, something you put onto yourself like a fully body tattoo. It was a place in each person's mind where people of all kinds could live together, and everyone understood this about it I think. It was a much different beginning than Scientology has had. There is depth in the myth that is of benefit to people, so its not about gathering space particles and paying fees.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I won't speak for Muhammed but its beyond reasonable doubt that Scientology has leadership that doesn't believe what it is preaching, which to me seems evil. I believe in people though. I believe a lot of people who are paying the Scientology fees really believe in it. Their faith makes it a religion but not equal to religion.
The underlined portion expresses my view far better than I could.

Jesus? For those who are deeply into the study of Christianity I think it becomes obvious that Jesus didn't do that...or that Paul didn't or whoever. Christianity began with a mythology, but it was honest--more of an identity than a mythology, more like a fraternity, something you put onto yourself like a fully body tattoo. It was a place in each person's mind where people of all kinds could live together, and everyone understood this about it I think. It was a much different beginning than Scientology has had. There is depth in the myth that is of benefit to people, so its not about gathering space particles and paying fees.
Honesty is as honesty does.
I've no reason to dis Scientology any more than most other faiths.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The underlined portion expresses my view far better than I could.


Honesty is as honesty does.
I've no reason to dis Scientology any more than most other faiths.

One has to consider the actual deeds and teachings, though. Maybe you are unaware of Scientology's, or maybe you don't mind them or don't find them significantly more questionable than others. That is legitimate, but so is the alternative.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
One has to consider the actual deeds and teachings, though. Maybe you are unaware of Scientology's, or maybe you don't mind them or don't find them significantly more questionable than others. That is legitimate, but so is the alternative.
I see the big picture.
What particular sin do you think is unique to Scientology?
Why is it knock them out of the "religion club"?
Why are the horrible sins in the other major religions not so bad?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I see the big picture.
What particular sin do you think is unique to Scientology?

I would not call it unique, but Scientology isn't really very typical far as religions go. Perhaps a bit more controversially, it is not respectable either.

I do not think much of judging and comparing religions. I do it all the time. They are much too influential for me not to do it.

And why is it so much worse than a random faith? Because it is so reliant on blind, unswerving devotion and obedience, and has so little to offer in the way of actual religious wisdom. It lacks the sincere good will of the Bahai Faith, the meaningful sages of Catholicism, the deep inspirational value of Hinduism, the sheer wisdom and reflectional worth of Taoism.

Quite frankly, it does not seem to have much in the way of worthwhile goals either. It looks much like a "religion of results", such as SGI or even Kardecist Spiritism, right down to the demand of blind obedience and the brainwashing aspects.

That is simply not at all "the same" as, say, the average Christian or Islamic movement.


Why is it knock them out of the "religion club"?
Why are the horrible sins in the other major religions not so bad?

Oh, there is plenty of horrors in other religions. Scientology is however considerably less capable of validating itself than most, and considerably more dangerous.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I would not call it unique, but Scientology isn't really very typical far as religions go. Perhaps a bit more controversially, it is not respectable either.
I feel the same about most mainstream religions.

...it is so reliant on blind, unswerving devotion and obedience...
This seems common among the big'uns. In some, you must actually believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old, & that a Jewish zombie is the son of God. I kid you not!

....and has so little to offer in the way of actual religious wisdom.
Some adherents would argue with you on this point.
But I see much anti-wisdom as the basis for "respected" religions.

It lacks the sincere good will of the Bahai Faith, the meaningful sages of Catholicism, the deep inspirational value of Hinduism, the sheer wisdom and reflectional worth of Taoism.
It also lacks systematic sexual assault of children, destruction of native cultures, & major violent clashes with other faiths.


Quite frankly, it does not seem to have much in the way of worthwhile goals either. It looks much like a "religion of results", such as SGI or even Kardecist Spiritism, right down to the demand of blind obedience and the brainwashing aspects.
That is simply not at all "the same" as, say, the average Christian or Islamic movement.
Not the same, but similar enuf, & lacking in some of the more egregious failings (eg, world wide terrorism) of your "average" faiths.

Oh, there is plenty of horrors in other religions. Scientology is however considerably less capable of validating itself than most, and considerably more dangerous.
Being far fewer in number, they pose less danger.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Note to my fundie friends:
I am somewhat uncomfortable mocking your faiths in order to make my point.
Normally I keep my offensive opinions toned down. But the situation demands
a temporary change in style. I don't judge you harshly for your beliefs, because
I too believe some stuff which is loopy in your eyes...& in the eyes of fellow heathens.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
Note to my fundie friends:
I am somewhat uncomfortable mocking your faiths in order to make my point.
Normally I keep my offensive opinions toned down. But the situation demands
a temporary change in style. I don't judge you harshly for your beliefs, because
I too believe some stuff which is loopy in your eyes...& in the eyes of fellow heathens.


Indeed it's a tightrope you are walking. You are managing it quite gracefully.

You didn't even mention the Crusades, the Inquisition, radical jihad, or the abuse of the Palestinian people. Or the angry Burmese buddhist. Or Oprah.

Normally I keep my offensive opinions toned down.
So you are just presenting a fabricated persona ? What offensive opinions are you editing out ? Suddenly, I wonder if I really know you. :(

Become a pariah like me ! Why worry about the opinions of nutters ? :rolleyes:

Let's all get comfortable with our intolerance. Like true Operating Thetans... google "dead agenting". And Scientologists do that without having a single thought in their head ! Wow !
 
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