“Direct experience” with God(s)

[an anarchist]

I have seen it oft said on this site that the reason one believes is because of their own direct experience with the divine. I have said so myself.

Some of my “experience” with the divine (“God” saving my arse when I sent out an SOS to him) can be attributed to luck or coincidence.

However, I also practice divination. It’s been a while, but I consult the soul within and in essence “god”. I received clear answers before. I will test it more rigorously, it been a while since I done it. Those who don’t believe in divination, do you suppose it’s my mind seeing what it wants to see?

I have this in debates because I want people to talk about their “personal experiences” with the divine. Then, I want to look at other possibilities that the experience can be other than a “divine” experience.

When I was a Christian, I allowed myself to believe that my luck was proof of Jesus looking out for me. Do you let yourself believe you have experiences with the divine because it’s, let’s say, easier that way?

 

[Quintessence]

Eeeeh.... it's not hard to take any number of experiences and go all cynic on it with "ho hum it's all in your head." But... why? It's boring. Worse, it's incredibly unfun. Painfully dull. A major yawnfest. Not sure what value there would be in presenting deeply personal experiences like that just to have them yawned to death. The most I think I could get out of it is humor and amusement at people taking something beautiful and awesome and "ho humming" it into oblivion. That sort of thing is so silly I can't even be upset at it. Or am I totally misconstruing the direction you intended to go with this. Very possible... I've been prone to a bit more flippancy than usual of late...

 

[Orbit]

Once you re-define "god" this becomes less problematic.

 

[idea]

When I was a Christian, I allowed myself to believe that my luck was proof ....

Luck for everyone is a matter of... creating your own luck

The Research Backed Guide To Being Lucky

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...6sMDegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0S9eviPbbZRHikTySBndU6

 

[F1fan]

I have seen it oft said on this site that the reason one believes is because of their own direct experience with the divine. I have said so myself.

I find the claims of theists who say they have a relationship or experiences with thier God to be suspicious. One thing is that they often refer to belief in this God, and this is awkward word use. For example you don't claim to have had dinner with a girl last weekend, but you believe she exists. If you had dinner with her you surely KNOW she exists, as your sensory ability confirmed this. So for a theist to believe in their God, and claim an experience with it suggests it is all fabricated in their mind, and they are treating the illusion as an experience involving a being exterior to the mind.

So Another thing is what exactly is it they relating to when they claim to have a relationship with God? What part of their mortal being is able to sense and engage with the supernatural? If they can do this naturally then they can show us, or at least explain this process. They can't.

 

[an anarchist]

Through meditation, does one have the ability to experience the divine? I am not that advanced of a meditator, just a novice. Anyone experience the divine through meditation? Or prayer even.

 

[Aštra’el]

Direct experience is everything to me.

 

[an anarchist]

Eeeeh.... it's not hard to take any number of experiences and go all cynic on it with "ho hum it's all in your head." But... why? It's boring. Worse, it's incredibly unfun. Painfully dull. A major yawnfest. Not sure what value there would be in presenting deeply personal experiences like that just to have them yawned to death. The most I think I could get out of it is humor and amusement at people taking something beautiful and awesome and "ho humming" it into oblivion. That sort of thing is so silly I can't even be upset at it. Or am I totally misconstruing the direction you intended to go with this. Very possible... I've been prone to a bit more flippancy than usual of late...

I am hoping to invoke introspection in the believer. By reevaluating their perceived experiences with the divine, perhaps their faith will be strengthened or perhaps they will ask reasonable questions about their experiences.

 

[an anarchist]

Direct experience is everything to me.

What exactly is this direct experience?

 

[Psalm23]

I've thought of a experience I have had before . I don't know of a natural explanation that makes sense to me. This experience isn't why I believe because I believed long before it ever happened.

 

[Windwalker]

Through meditation, does one have the ability to experience the divine?

Yes. Of course.

Anyone experience the divine through meditation?

All the time. Really, anytime I simply stop busying my brain with my own thoughts of what's going on and be present in the moment. Meditation is a tool to teach you how to do this. It's simply learning how to get out of the way and to allow what is always there the whole time into our awareness. It can become just as simple as looking up and seeing, rather than fixating on the chatter of our own minds.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I find the claims of theists who say they have a relationship or experiences with thier God to be suspicious. One thing is that they often refer to belief in this God, and this is awkward word use. For example you don't claim to have had dinner with a girl last weekend, but you believe she exists. If you had dinner with her you surely KNOW she exists, as your sensory ability confirmed this. So for a theist to believe in their God, and claim an experience with it suggests it is all fabricated in their mind, and they are treating the illusion as an experience involving a being exterior to the mind.

So Another thing is what exactly is it they relating to when they claim to have a relationship with God? What part of their mortal being is able to sense and engage with the supernatural? If they can do this naturally then they can show us, or at least explain this process. They can't.

You still have to in effect explain the difference between methodological and philosophical naturalism and how you solve the problem of what objective reality is as independent of you.
I mean we have had the problem for over 2000+ years in philosophy now. So if you have found the answer, don't just claim it. Show it.

 

[Sirona]

Of course I don't want to exclude anyone from this forum but I think it's really a pity that this forum is overrun with atheists to the extent that theists cannot express themselves "safely" without incurring the risk of being possibly mocked. Western culture worships "reason" and "efficiency" to the extent that a person is just the body and the body just works productively until it's "depleted" and falls down "useless". I'm way too young to have experienced the 1960's counterculture but I think it was a movement meant to challenge this attitude. What we worship as "reason" is actualy a very small, superficial part of the mind, but many people in the West adopt a cynical attitude and consider it their "god" saying everything religious is bad for reasons such as they were probably forced to sit out Sunday school.

For example, I was raised as an atheist and being told that "prayer is useless" because it doesn't have imminent physical effects. But things like prayer or meditation are NOT useless. Being regularly practiced, they may lead to what one Transcendental Meditation copycat called "the relaxation response" which often is beneficial for the health. It's also a fact that nuns who lead a quiet life with little stress and lots of regular prayer live longer than average people.

What We Learn From the Long Lives of Nuns (Think: People, Not Productivity) | KQED

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

I find the claims of theists who say they have a relationship or experiences with thier God to be suspicious. One thing is that they often refer to belief in this God, and this is awkward word use. For example you don't claim to have had dinner with a girl last weekend, but you believe she exists. If you had dinner with her you surely KNOW she exists, as your sensory ability confirmed this. So for a theist to believe in their God, and claim an experience with it suggests it is all fabricated in their mind, and they are treating the illusion as an experience involving a being exterior to the mind.

So Another thing is what exactly is it they relating to when they claim to have a relationship with God? What part of their mortal being is able to sense and engage with the supernatural? If they can do this naturally then they can show us, or at least explain this process. They can't.

I think a lot of those you speak of would actually say “I know God”. But if you ask them “do you believe in God?” or “do you believe God exists?, they are likely to simply say “yes”.

If we have experienced God and use the word “believe”, it’s probably out of respect for others beliefs.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[RestlessSoul]

I find the claims of theists who say they have a relationship or experiences with thier God to be suspicious. One thing is that they often refer to belief in this God, and this is awkward word use. For example you don't claim to have had dinner with a girl last weekend, but you believe she exists. If you had dinner with her you surely KNOW she exists, as your sensory ability confirmed this. So for a theist to believe in their God, and claim an experience with it suggests it is all fabricated in their mind, and they are treating the illusion as an experience involving a being exterior to the mind.

So Another thing is what exactly is it they relating to when they claim to have a relationship with God? What part of their mortal being is able to sense and engage with the supernatural? If they can do this naturally then they can show us, or at least explain this process. They can't.

On the contrary, you can discover and develop the spiritual side of yourself, for yourself. You are free to form your own relationship with God as you understand God. But it seems you won’t.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

On the contrary, you can discover and develop the spiritual side of yourself, for yourself. But you won’t.

Yeah, I mean to me it is in the end a way of coping, that works better than only the objective reality matters.
We can nitpick the words, but it doesn't matter. I get what you are saying, even if I say differently.

 

[Quintessence]

I am hoping to invoke introspection in the believer. By reevaluating their perceived experiences with the divine, perhaps their faith will be strengthened or perhaps they will ask reasonable questions about their experiences.

Ah, yeah, I was totally missing your angle. Whoops! I tend to do this as a matter of course so I didn't think about it from this perspective (my tradition also isn't really a "faith" so much as a practice).

Practicing discernment - figuring out what experiences mean - is very important. Something a few wiser elders in the Pagan community have said is to remember to suspend the urge to immediately label and categorize experiences. Just let it breathe for a moment before drawing any conclusions about it. Eventually you'll interpret from the perspective of your traditions and be mindful of that process. There's something to the notion that an experience will be understood differently by someone in one tradition versus another.

 

[Muffled]

I have seen it oft said on this site that the reason one believes is because of their own direct experience with the divine. I have said so myself.

Some of my “experience” with the divine (“God” saving my arse when I sent out an SOS to him) can be attributed to luck or coincidence.

However, I also practice divination. It’s been a while, but I consult the soul within and in essence “god”. I received clear answers before. I will test it more rigorously, it been a while since I done it. Those who don’t believe in divination, do you suppose it’s my mind seeing what it wants to see?

I have this in debates because I want people to talk about their “personal experiences” with the divine. Then, I want to look at other possibilities that the experience can be other than a “divine” experience.

When I was a Christian, I allowed myself to believe that my luck was proof of Jesus looking out for me. Do you let yourself believe you have experiences with the divine because it’s, let’s say, easier that way?

I believe the one true test is whether what a person hears from God as a prophecy comes true that can't be just coincidence. My personal prophecy was that.

 

[Muffled]

Eeeeh.... it's not hard to take any number of experiences and go all cynic on it with "ho hum it's all in your head." But... why? It's boring. Worse, it's incredibly unfun. Painfully dull. A major yawnfest. Not sure what value there would be in presenting deeply personal experiences like that just to have them yawned to death. The most I think I could get out of it is humor and amusement at people taking something beautiful and awesome and "ho humming" it into oblivion. That sort of thing is so silly I can't even be upset at it. Or am I totally misconstruing the direction you intended to go with this. Very possible... I've been prone to a bit more flippancy than usual of late...

I believe the ho-hummers would not believe even if they saw someone rise from the dead. I do believe the investigation of the integrity of the experience can be interesting.

 

[Muffled]

Luck for everyone is a matter of... creating your own luck

The Research Backed Guide To Being Lucky

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...6sMDegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0S9eviPbbZRHikTySBndU6

There was one time I needed money to pay the rent. I asked God for help and played my numbers. It was the only time that year that I played my numbers. The numbers won and the amount was enough to pay the rent.