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‘The word was God’ - What was that almighty word that created all things?

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
ERROR, it's been in the bible all the time. no need to create anyone or anything. just because you now have heard the TRUTH for the first time, yes, it's shocking at first. but as the Lord Jesus has always said .... "FEAR NOT".

now, for one's IGNORANCE. if one do not understand something, the correct course of action is to ask QUESTIONS.

did you not read my reply? I answered you ..... but must did not understand.

The same person, JESUS in the ECHAD of First and Last, you didn't understand that?

let's stop here for a second and get it Right. Jesus as Father STANDS in front of the Throne.... (THE ROOT, the Ordinal First), and he also sits on the throne as the ordinal Last, the Son. yes, the "ECHAD" is in perfect view.

now, if you think that it's the Father who sits on the throne. I have one question for you, "who gave the Father POWER?". supportive scripture, back up one chapter, Revelation 4:9 "And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever," Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

now if you still think that the Father sits on the throne, then post book, chapter, and verse as to who is more powerful that the Father to give him power. when you do that then we can move forward.

now, I have scripture to the effect where that the Son Received power, but not the Father.

I'll be looking for your ANSWER.

101G.
So you believe that it is the Father who is standing in front of the great throne and is envisioned as a lamb prepared for slaughter?

And it is Jesus Christ who is seated on the great throne … the one clothed in jewels and glorious light?

The Father (and ‘Father’ means ‘Creator’) created all things… :
  • “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.” (Rev 4:11)
Father’: ‘He that creates; He that brings into being’

‘God’: The creator and life giver… He that brings into being…’

I think you might have gotten things slightly out of order - backwards, in fact!

God receives ‘back’ power from those whom he first gave it to. The righteous Kings and elders are appointed BY GOD… and they SUBMIT their power back to God in those acts of praise, glory, and honor.
Creation is the work of God, and He is entitled to receive the praise, honor, and glory and power back in return.

You do notice what is said to the lamb:
  • “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” (Rev 5:12)
He receives power, spiritual wealth, wisdom, and strength, from his spiritual Father, YHWH God. He also receives honor, glory and praise, from the millions of ANGELS encircling the throne and the elders. Doesn’t this tie in with the verse that says:
  • “Let all the angels pay homage to him” (Hebrews 1: 6)
And we know that verse is speaking about Jesus Christ.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
So you believe that it is the Father who is standing in front of the great throne and is envisioned as a lamb prepared for slaughter?
ARE YOU KIDDING? prepared for slaughter .... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh MY, I cannot believe you said that.

No, the scene in Chapter 5 is the Father, the Holy Spirit, STANDING in a RESURRECTED "GLORIFIED BODY". how do101G know this, READ,,,,,
your FIRST ERROR of the Day. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

The term had, is the past form of the verb ‘to have’ which is also used as an auxiliary verb in the past perfect tense. the LAMB been slain, by standing now indicate .... resurrection. now who is the LAMB. and NOT, the "Lamb of God?" let the bible tell us, same chapter. Revelation 5:4 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." Revelation 5:5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."

the ROOT of David is the Spirit..... God almighty the "LORD". all cap. and not the "OFFSPRING", which is the Son. see, this is How 101G know who sits and who stands, the ONE PERSON "JESUS", becauase he is the ROOT, (Father, the Ordinal First, LORD). and the OFFSPRING, (Son, the Ordinal Last). supportive Scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
he, JESUS, is ROOT, SPIRIT, before David, "LORD", and he, JESUS, is OFFSPRING, Flesh and blood, after David, "Lord". where many make the mistake as to who is standing, they see the Identifier, "the Lion of the tribe of Juda". they know this is JESUS, but what they did not see or know is that the same JESUS is, "the Root of David". just as Revelation 22:16 states. he who sits is he who stands, because he, Jesus is the "ECHAD" of his OWN-SELF. My God this is too easy when One KNOWS the TRUTH.

understand soapy, and anyone else who IGNORANTLY thinks the Father, (as you have been led to believe). sits on the throne as the first person of a trinity, is in ERROR, it's the Lord Jesus sits on the throne. and now, a question with an answer. "why the Father took the book out of his, the Lord Jesus hand?", answer. Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." BINGO, because the Father took the BOOK with all the future events written in it, and ONLY he, the Father knows. Oh man this is 2 easy not to understand,

so,it is JESUS who sits and stands,,,,,, :eek: YIKES! .... only those who know and understand the "ECHAD" can understand the book of Revelation.

the "ECHAD" of God will open the bible up unto you, if you let the Holy Spirit teach you

now, as I asked before, if anyone can find the scripture that shows who gave the Father power here in Revelation 4.... 101G will repent, else you will A. have to rethink your position, and B. REPENT, yourself.

I'll be waiting for that book chapter and verse from the bible stating the name of the person who gave God almighty "POWER"

101G.
 

Sedim Haba

Outa here... bye-bye!
"Word" is a poor translation of the Greek term "logos". Which referred to a kind of divine, universal "logic" upon which and through which physical existence happens, and is shaped. The sentence makes complete sense when we understand the idea of the original word "logos". Think of it as the ultimate TOE. The ideological blueprint for existence, within the mind of God (the gods). That's how the Greeks used that term when it was written into the NT.

Yup, it's 100% Greek. 0% Hebrew, the language of the Torah.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
ARE YOU KIDDING? prepared for slaughter .... LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh MY, I cannot believe you said that.

No, the scene in Chapter 5 is the Father, the Holy Spirit, STANDING in a RESURRECTED "GLORIFIED BODY". how do101G know this, READ,,,,,
your FIRST ERROR of the Day. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

The term had, is the past form of the verb ‘to have’ which is also used as an auxiliary verb in the past perfect tense. the LAMB been slain, by standing now indicate .... resurrection. now who is the LAMB. and NOT, the "Lamb of God?" let the bible tell us, same chapter. Revelation 5:4 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." Revelation 5:5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."

the ROOT of David is the Spirit..... God almighty the "LORD". all cap. and not the "OFFSPRING", which is the Son. see, this is How 101G know who sits and who stands, the ONE PERSON "JESUS", becauase he is the ROOT, (Father, the Ordinal First, LORD). and the OFFSPRING, (Son, the Ordinal Last). supportive Scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
he, JESUS, is ROOT, SPIRIT, before David, "LORD", and he, JESUS, is OFFSPRING, Flesh and blood, after David, "Lord". where many make the mistake as to who is standing, they see the Identifier, "the Lion of the tribe of Juda". they know this is JESUS, but what they did not see or know is that the same JESUS is, "the Root of David". just as Revelation 22:16 states. he who sits is he who stands, because he, Jesus is the "ECHAD" of his OWN-SELF. My God this is too easy when One KNOWS the TRUTH.

understand soapy, and anyone else who IGNORANTLY thinks the Father, (as you have been led to believe). sits on the throne as the first person of a trinity, is in ERROR, it's the Lord Jesus sits on the throne. and now, a question with an answer. "why the Father took the book out of his, the Lord Jesus hand?", answer. Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." BINGO, because the Father took the BOOK with all the future events written in it, and ONLY he, the Father knows. Oh man this is 2 easy not to understand,

so,it is JESUS who sits and stands,,,,,, :eek: YIKES! .... only those who know and understand the "ECHAD" can understand the book of Revelation.

the "ECHAD" of God will open the bible up unto you, if you let the Holy Spirit teach you

now, as I asked before, if anyone can find the scripture that shows who gave the Father power here in Revelation 4.... 101G will repent, else you will A. have to rethink your position, and B. REPENT, yourself.

I'll be waiting for that book chapter and verse from the bible stating the name of the person who gave God almighty "POWER"

101G.
Thank you for making your position clear. It’s a little strange to me, and a bit confusing in many areas, but it’s still fascinating how you view and interpret the scriptures.

Your understanding is too great for me so I’ll leave it to others to debate with you the rationality of those points you believe.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
In the beginning God spoke a ‘word’ that initiated the creation of the material world.

What was that ‘word’ that God spoke?

And God spoke another word and another word and another word… and all that was created was created by that word that God spoke - That word was an almighty word that could not be resisted - what God spoke must come to be.

‘That word was God’:
  • That word was Almighty
  • That word was irresistible
  • That word was monumental
  • That word was glorious
  • That word was majestic
  • That word was all powerful
So, to me, the word was ‘God’, all the above apply as what that word was - It was not claiming that the spoken word of God was YHWH, the deity God… indeed, linguistics does not tally with that notion: ‘God’ as a Title is not ‘God’ as a description/definition/meaning of the term, ‘God’.

‘And the word [the deity God spoke] was with God’:
  • And the word was with mightiness, was with gloriousness, was with majesty, was with all power and authority, was with irresistibility word
What “God” (title of the deity) spoke must come to be: ‘To put flesh on the bones of your word’ - to put on flesh - to come true. This speaks of an act that was prophesied coming to fruition. It does not claim that ‘the word’ God spoke was a person but ‘of a person’ - the messiah.

So this ‘The word put on flesh’ is not speaking about the word being a glorious majestic monumental person but rather that God’s spoken word was such - and God’s word must put on flesh.

Taking into account that [the deity] God [Yhwh] spoke the word that created all things, and that ‘God’ as a definition means something of almighty greatness, how would you interpret ‘The word was God’?

The invention of written language occurs in the same time scale as Genesis; 5-6K years ago. All the words you have used to express the "word" is presented with written language. If there was no written language there would still be the sounds of spoken language, but no written words. God was the first written word or the first application of a new invention, a that time, which came from God.

If you come up with an innovation, where does it come from, if it is new, unprecedented and not yet part of cultural reality? You could not have read about it. In modern understanding we might say it comes from the unconscious mind and imagination as a hunch. It is preprocessed at an unconscious level. The hunch then gradually takes form to become conscious.This step may require consciousness testing and developing the idea. But if first appears to the conscious mind in the rough. The ancients attributed this creative process, that resulted in a pivotal invention needed for civilization, to God, since something new was created anew.

The word God, came from God; from/via the unconscious mind, and this word/sound become the foundation for developing the innovation of written language. The inspired inventor may have written the word God, broke down the sounds, into the first few letters, and expanded the innovation from there. The word God would have been like the border of a puzzle, which once set, allows you to fill in the middle; complete the first alphabet, that could be used to write/express the world around them with visual symbols.

The invention of writing was pivotal to the rise of civilization. Spoken language came several thousand years earlier. This was also from the unconscious mind. The problem for civilization was spoken word alone is easier to forget or embellish. This resulted in civilization able to form, but aborting after the innovators died, since their ideas and ingenuity were lost with their death. Word of mouth was not enough. Civilization would abort over time. Written language offered a way to freeze the memories of the innovators in time so new generations could study and learn. This allowed civilization to persist much longer.

If you look at science, for example, new science is not widely available to all until it is published. The scientist who does the work knows about their work, but if it was not published. it can get lost in time after they pass. Once published it is there for all time. Law does not take affect until it is written down and signed. If it is only words; debate, but until is is written into law, it does not count.

Until Genesis was written, with the new innovation, the early science view of the universe did not technically exist, as a consensus idea. Innovators had their systems, but without written language these systems died with them. If we had a year where no science is published there would be a year gap in science. Only the researcher and a few others would know. Bit culture would have not clue. Written is the gold standard making it sort of holy in their mind of the ancients. It all began with the word and word was God; innovator and invention.

This debate misses the mark since written language is so common one can lose the original significance of this pivotal innovation and how it would change the world and humanity. Genesis was the first published science theory. Science would continue to evolve over time, but there is only one first publication; Genesis. This is where science and the universe would begin. As it is written so it shall be.

The problem is not the history of science and innovation, which changes with time, but using the innovation of written language in a different way that would divide the world; knowledge of good and evil. This is connected to law and politics. Politics poisons the well, since it assume relative good and evil; to their own needs, but this is not objective like science.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
The invention of written language occurs in the same time scale as Genesis; 5-6K years ago. All the words you have used to express the "word" is presented with written language. If there was no written language there would still be the sounds of spoken language, but no written words. God was the first written word or the first application of a new invention, a that time, which came from God.

If you come up with an innovation, where does it come from, if it is new, unprecedented and not yet part of cultural reality? You could not have read about it. In modern understanding we might say it comes from the unconscious mind and imagination as a hunch. It is preprocessed at an unconscious level. The hunch then gradually takes form to become conscious.This step may require consciousness testing and developing the idea. But if first appears to the conscious mind in the rough. The ancients attributed this creative process, that resulted in a pivotal invention needed for civilization, to God, since something new was created anew.

The word God, came from God; from/via the unconscious mind, and this word/sound become the foundation for developing the innovation of written language. The inspired inventor may have written the word God, broke down the sounds, into the first few letters, and expanded the innovation from there. The word God would have been like the border of a puzzle, which once set, allows you to fill in the middle; complete the first alphabet, that could be used to write/express the world around them with visual symbols.

The invention of writing was pivotal to the rise of civilization. Spoken language came several thousand years earlier. This was also from the unconscious mind. The problem for civilization was spoken word alone is easier to forget or embellish. This resulted in civilization able to form, but aborting after the innovators died, since their ideas and ingenuity were lost with their death. Word of mouth was not enough. Civilization would abort over time. Written language offered a way to freeze the memories of the innovators in time so new generations could study and learn. This allowed civilization to persist much longer.

If you look at science, for example, new science is not widely available to all until it is published. The scientist who does the work knows about their work, but if it was not published. it can get lost in time after they pass. Once published it is there for all time. Law does not take affect until it is written down and signed. If it is only words; debate, but until is is written into law, it does not count.

Until Genesis was written, with the new innovation, the early science view of the universe did not technically exist, as a consensus idea. Innovators had their systems, but without written language these systems died with them. If we had a year where no science is published there would be a year gap in science. Only the researcher and a few others would know. Bit culture would have not clue. Written is the gold standard making it sort of holy in their mind of the ancients. It all began with the word and word was God; innovator and invention.

This debate misses the mark since written language is so common one can lose the original significance of this pivotal innovation and how it would change the world and humanity. Genesis was the first published science theory. Science would continue to evolve over time, but there is only one first publication; Genesis. This is where science and the universe would begin. As it is written so it shall be.

The problem is not the history of science and innovation, which changes with time, but using the innovation of written language in a different way that would divide the world; knowledge of good and evil. This is connected to law and politics. Politics poisons the well, since it assume relative good and evil; to their own needs, but this is not objective like science.
We use ‘Words’ to verbally and in writing to expression our thoughts, opinions, commands, orders, requests, desires, etc.

In relation to the posts question, ‘God spoke’ the world into existence beginning with ‘Let there be light’.

Those words were not to be taken as English or Hebrew or anything like the language we know - in fact God does not speak in language we readily understand by our ears or by eyesight. His words, and language must be spiritually discerned.

But nonetheless, the holy man, Moses interpreted what God said so we have a written and verbal record all the works can understand.

Yes, Moses wrote the WORDS OF GOD as he interpreted them.

That’s not the point here. The point is ‘What IS (are) the meaning(s) of the Word’ in John 1:1?

Trinity claims it is A PERSON who created all things.

I say it is the UTTERANCE of God that created all things - AS STATED in Genesis 1:3.

Im saying that: ‘by the word (utterance) of God all things were created - and there is nothing created that was not created without the utterance of God’

God uttered the words: ‘Let the waters …’, ‘Let the earth bring forth …’, ‘Let the day separate from the night’.., (don’t quote me on explicit! I’m free flowing here!)

Yes, GOD’s word … God’s utterances were ALMIGHTY, GLORIOUS, MONUMENTAL, MAJESTIC, ALL POWERFUL, IRRESISTIBLE.

All those superlatives express one term: ‘GOD’. Hence it is clear what it means by:
  • ‘The word was God
(substitute any superlative for ‘God’) and see what you get!)

But now see what happens if you say that ‘the Word’ is a person:
  • ‘The word WAS God’
  • ‘The word was WITH GOD’
Say, Jesus is the word, in John 1:1. Do you see it says that Jesus was WITH GOD! But if trinity is true then Jesus IS GOD… so how could GOD BE WITH GOD and yet there is ONLY ONE GOD!!!

Being WITH something means there are TWO things…

And later, how is it that Trinitarians do not understand the phrase: ‘To put on flesh’ - ‘To put flesh on the bones of your word’?

God spike the word that a saviour would be sent … that is his word.., and he is as good as his word… in time to come A SAVIOUR WAS SENT… that is His word putting on flesh!

However, I do think Trinitarians know this to be true but their ideology curves them to dismiss the truth and accept the lie in order to propagate and fulfil what another word from God says:
“Even kings have indulged in the whore of Babylon’ - the debauchery that is the so-called ‘Holy’ Roman Catholic Church. (Kings… means those who should know and express wholesome truth! Leaders, heads of governments, masters and lords of humanity)
 

101G

Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
The Torah did not include the NT
the Torah is the NT hidden, and the NT is the Torah Revealed. and the rendering of the Greek Logos Word is correct, the term Logos means, the Word of God. and "of" according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words means, "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction.

so, "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, of these the subjective and objective are mentioned.

the subjective, Spirit. (WORD). the Objective (WORD MADE FLESH). supportive scripture. John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

understand, the Word "OF" God, God being Subjective, or Abstract, (Spirit), and the Word, Objective, or Concrete, (Flesh). here, "of" is indicating an association between two entities, typically one of belonging. belonging? that's why in flesh the Lord Jesus my, my, Father, and the LORD Jesus the Spirit said MY, MY, MY son.

let's put this in Latman's terms. JESUS as the Ordinal First, (Spirit), the Subjective, abstract say from heaven, MY SON, he is saying. MY BODY, on Earth. and when Jesus on Earth, in that body of Flesh as the Ordinal Last, the Objective, concrete, say MY Father, he is saying MY Spirit which is in Heaven. this is classic "ECHAD" in the Bible. supportive Scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

STOP, was not the son of man speaking to Nicodemus here on Earth, but at the same time in Heaven? BINGO. there it is ,the association between two entities, typically one of belonging. belonging?

so, John 1:1 is grammarly correct, from start to finish.

101G.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Thank you for making your position clear. It’s a little strange to me, and a bit confusing in many areas, but it’s still fascinating how you view and interpret the scriptures.
You are welcome, but don't give up. no interpretation of the scriptures are needed. let God, the Holy Spirit, teach you. for God is not the Author of Confusion, and also any private interpretation of the scriptures are forbidden, see 1 Peter 1:20-21
Your understanding is too great for me so I’ll leave it to others to debate with you the rationality of those points you believe.
don't sell yourself short, my understanding of the scriptures is not "GREATER" than yours. Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

my brain is no different from yours. only proper teaching by the Holy Ghost is only NEEDED.

now we suggest you study to show God that you are approve for his teaching.

understand, God is the comforter, meaning a HELPER. and a helper do not do YOUR WORK, (as here, to Study), but a helper helps you to do YOUR work, and if YOU aren't doing anything the Helper has nothing to do. .......... understand?

so, put all those misconceptions that you were taught, out of your mind and start fresh, it's never to late. the SCRIPTURE is TRUE, Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe." Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

now, get to work and ask God to TEACH YOU.

101G.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
You are welcome, but don't give up. no interpretation of the scriptures are needed. let God, the Holy Spirit, teach you. for God is not the Author of Confusion, and also any private interpretation of the scriptures are forbidden, see 1 Peter 1:20-21

don't sell yourself short, my understanding of the scriptures is not "GREATER" than yours. Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

my brain is no different from yours. only proper teaching by the Holy Ghost is only NEEDED.

now we suggest you study to show God that you are approve for his teaching.

understand, God is the comforter, meaning a HELPER. and a helper do not do YOUR WORK, (as here, to Study), but a helper helps you to do YOUR work, and if YOU aren't doing anything the Helper has nothing to do. .......... understand?

so, put all those misconceptions that you were taught, out of your mind and start fresh, it's never to late. the SCRIPTURE is TRUE, Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat." Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe." Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

now, get to work and ask God to TEACH YOU.

101G.
You are welcome to your specious personal opinions. Cheers!
 

InChrist

Free4ever
So you are saying that it was THE SON who spoke creation into existence?

What does the title ‘FATHER’, mean?
Isn’t it:
  • ‘He that gives life..’
  • ‘He that CREATES..’
  • ‘He that BRINGS INTO BEING…’
Think of:
  • ‘The Father of the internet’ - Tim Burners-Lee
  • ‘The Father of wickedness’ - The angel called Satan
  • ‘The Father of Psychology’ - Clement Freud
  • ‘The Father of the Israelites’ - Jacob
So why then is Jesus not called ‘Father’, instead of ‘Son’… afterall, isn’t a SON in subjection to his Father… as Jesus is in subjection to GOD?
  • ‘The Father loves me because I always do what the Father shows me to do’. Jesus can only do righteously what GOD SHOWS HIM TO DO!
Think about that for a while and then answer!

Of course Jesus only did what His Father showed Him because;
1) he lowered Himself into human flesh as a servant and example to humanity and
2) the Father and Son are One and in complete unity and purpose.
It is just ridiculous to argue about the deity of Jesus Christ. What or Who else would the only Son of God be, but God? Human sons are human, aren’t they. Therefore God’s Son would be God.
The scriptures declare Jesus to be God…

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:28

The scriptures do also call the Son: Father.

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6
 

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Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Of course Jesus only did what His Father showed Him because;
1) he lowered Himself into human flesh as a servant and example to humanity and
2) the Father and Son are One and in complete unity and purpose.
It is just ridiculous to argue about the deity of Jesus Christ. What or Who else would the only Son of God be, but God? Human sons are human, aren’t they. Therefore God’s Son would be God.
The scriptures declare Jesus to be God…

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. Acts 20:28

The scriptures do also call the Son: Father.

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6
Why is Jesus called ONLY ‘PRINCE’ of peace?
Who then is KING of peace?

If Jesus is God then he, too, should be King of peace. Do you agree?

Also, do you see that the verse in Isaiah is a PROPHESY … a pointer to FUTURE events?
The event wherein Jesus is to be called ‘Everlasting Father’ is when Jesus is seated as judge over man and angels at the end of time. Those of mankind whom he deems worthy he will GRANT ETERNAL LIFE.

Can you then see that if Jesus grants eternal life to these then he is, effective, an eternal Father, since the definition (in this respect) of ‘Father’ (as I showed) is ‘He who gives life to…’.

So, it is a FUTURE TITLE - not past and present since the world has not ended nor is jesus seated in judgement over mankind - yet!
 

101G

Well-Known Member
  • “Let all the angels pay homage to him” (Hebrews 1: 6)
And we know that verse is speaking about Jesus Christ.
GINOLJC, to all.
yes, that verse is speaking of JESUS, but not the Christ. well why not. because in his Glorified state he no longer has natural flesh, WITH BLOOD, which is Christ. supportive scripture, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." (ONE MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN). 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." Jesus, the Lord, being the FIRSTFRUIT from the DEAD, is no longer the Lamb of, of, of, God, but in Amalgamation with his his "own" Spirit the "LAMB"

understand, there is no Christ/Lamb of God any longer in Heaven. but only the LAMB. that's why the LAMB/JESUS was standing before the throne, "WITH ALL POWER, YES, THE ROOT OF DAVID. Oh this is just to easy.

as ROOT, this verse apply to the Lord Jesus also. Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"

here "Lord" indicate the Son Right, and he, Jesus, "Laid the Foundation of the Earth, RIGHT?". well let's see what the bible say as to who Laid the foundation of the EARTH. David said this of his "GOD". Psalms 102:24 "I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations." Psalms 102:25 "Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands."
this is a direct quote as in Hebrews, God is ONE PERSON. now this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." Isaiah 48:13 "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together."

wait, is not the FIRST the "LORD?", Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." ONE PERSON... "I"

so the First is the LORD, all caps, Right, but in Hebrews it said, the "Lord", not the "LORD" Laid the foundation of the EARTH. well lets see if the "LORD", all capitalization, laid the foundation of the EARTH. Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

Hold it, so the "LORD" laid the Foundation of the EARTH. but Hebrew said the "Lord" Laid the Foundation of the EARTH....... do we have a so-called contradiction in the bible?...... (smile)... lol, NO. either the "LORD", and the "Lord" is the SAME ONE PERSON who laid the Foundation of the EARTH, if NOT then.... Huston, you, not God, not his apostles, and disciple, nor 101G has a problem, but YOU DO.

for us, the LORD is the Lord "SHARED EQUALLY" in Flesh, which is the ECHAD of God in different Administration, or what 101G say is a "DIVERSITY" of himself in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord." 1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all." HOW PLAIN CAN ONE GET"

and please note, the term "administrations" means Dispensations, as in, beginning and End. Alpha and Omega, and First and Last... BINGO, Oh how clear the bible is, when one has the Holy Spirit as Teacher.

101G.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
GINOLJC, to all.
yes, that verse is speaking of JESUS, but not the Christ. well why not. because in his Glorified state he no longer has natural flesh, WITH BLOOD, which is Christ. supportive scripture, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." (ONE MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN). 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." Jesus, the Lord, being the FIRSTFRUIT from the DEAD, is no longer the Lamb of, of, of, God, but in Amalgamation with his his "own" Spirit the "LAMB"

understand, there is no Christ/Lamb of God any longer in Heaven. but only the LAMB. that's why the LAMB/JESUS was standing before the throne, "WITH ALL POWER, YES, THE ROOT OF DAVID. Oh this is just to easy.

as ROOT, this verse apply to the Lord Jesus also. Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"

here "Lord" indicate the Son Right, and he, Jesus, "Laid the Foundation of the Earth, RIGHT?". well let's see what the bible say as to who Laid the foundation of the EARTH. David said this of his "GOD". Psalms 102:24 "I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations." Psalms 102:25 "Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands."
this is a direct quote as in Hebrews, God is ONE PERSON. now this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." Isaiah 48:13 "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together."

wait, is not the FIRST the "LORD?", Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." ONE PERSON... "I"

so the First is the LORD, all caps, Right, but in Hebrews it said, the "Lord", not the "LORD" Laid the foundation of the EARTH. well lets see if the "LORD", all capitalization, laid the foundation of the EARTH. Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

Hold it, so the "LORD" laid the Foundation of the EARTH. but Hebrew said the "Lord" Laid the Foundation of the EARTH....... do we have a so-called contradiction in the bible?...... (smile)... lol, NO. either the "LORD", and the "Lord" is the SAME ONE PERSON who laid the Foundation of the EARTH, if NOT then.... Huston, you, not God, not his apostles, and disciple, nor 101G has a problem, but YOU DO.

for us, the LORD is the Lord "SHARED EQUALLY" in Flesh, which is the ECHAD of God in different Administration, or what 101G say is a "DIVERSITY" of himself in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord." 1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all." HOW PLAIN CAN ONE GET"

and please note, the term "administrations" means Dispensations, as in, beginning and End. Alpha and Omega, and First and Last... BINGO, Oh how clear the bible is, when one has the Holy Spirit as Teacher.

101G.
‘First and Last’ means ‘Only’.

‘Alpha and Omega’ means ‘The start and the end’ - which means the same as ‘Only’.

‘The beginning and the end’ also means ‘Only’.

‘I started a new car model but it never worked out. It was the beginning and the end of my car making ambitions. It was the first and the last time I tried to make cars… and I only ever made one car from all that: if was the Alpha and Omega of all cars I made!’

But, unknowing to you, you rightly say that if was the ‘LORD’ who created all things. The ‘LORD’ is an English SUBSTITUTION for the Hebrew name GOD gave Himself: ‘YHWH’ (in Hebrew).
‘I am YHWH and there is none like me… besides me there is no other God’.

Jesus is not ‘YHWH’…

Jesus is Son of YHWH in spirit. There will be many ‘Sons of Yhwh’ before the end comes. I bet you can find scriptures saying so!!! But there will only be He who is completely sinless, Righteous, and Holy n God’s sight. Therefore Jesus is the first and the last of those in heaven who are HUMAN Sons of God from the time they were born. Angels, holy angels are fully sons of God but they are not ‘made in the image of God’.

Jesus is the first born from the dead: There cannot be more than one FIRST BORN FROM the DEAD BY GOD. All others raised up from the dead will be BY Jesus. Therefore Jesus is ALPHA AND OMEGA of those raised back to life BY GOD - The ONLY ONE.

‘YHWH’ is the name of the Father.
‘Jesus’ is the name of the Son (‘A son shall be born of thee anc thou shalt call his name “Jesus”.., for he shall save his people’

‘Jesus’ is not really the name of the Son. It is really ‘Joshua’… and Joshua (Yeshua) means ‘He that Saves’. It is the same name but the Bible translators decided to make the Som of God’s name STAND OUT from all else who were called ‘Joshua’ (English) / ‘Yeshua’ (Hebrew). Both have the same meaning because they ARE the same name.

Point of fact, when Mary was told to call the child, ‘Jesus’ (sorry, ‘Yeshua’) she didn’t complain BECAUSE there already was a forefather with the name ‘Yeshua’… Joshua of Moses and LEADING the ISRAELITES INTO THE SAFETY OF THE PROMISED LAND - just as Jesus/Yeshua the Christ will lead like a shepherd, the lambs of God into the paradise pen fold world awaiting them.
Notice that when Zachariah was told to call his son, John, he argued with the Angel, saying that there was no one in his ancestry with the name John!! That’s why that story is in the scriptures … to validate what I just showed you about Yeshua/Jesus!!
 
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