‘Free will’ is not an excuse for God allowing atrocities.

[DNB]

Nope. No we don't. I'm sorry you can't see that. Every day is a gift and a blessing, and I plan on living it to the fullest.

God is holy, ....but,. also merciful. There is a place where all the atrocities that you (and I) so incessantly protest, will not exist. Don't place your hope in this world, it's a vile cesspool and we're all guilty of making it so. Yes, that's good and positive news!

 

[Ashoka]

Charlatans, hypocrites, hustlers, and the pretentious exist in all religions. We are not discussing whether or not the authorities of any particular religion should squash such transgressive behaviour. First, there is no over-arching hierarchy in Christianity (despite what the pope thinks), and we cannot monitor every adherent's conduct.
Not every Hindu abides by the definitive laws or ideals of Hinduism, and it is beyond the more sincere follower's ability to restrain or eradicate such hypocrisy.
If Jesus didn't say it, then those who do it are not Christian. This goes without saying, and I am surprised that this even requires any explaining or defending?

No, I have never read the Bhagavad Gita.

That's still not taking responsibility. They claim to follow Christ; therefore, Christian. This goes for anyone of any denomination. It's just so awfully convenient for other Christians not to claim them, as if it absolves them from responsibility, but the truth is, your religion is responsible for a lot of damage to this world, be it through wars, colonization, or missionary work. They demonize anyone not like them.

You're right; not every Hindu follows Hindu conduct, but Hinduism also doesn't say to kill nonbelievers and that they are going to hell. Yes, groups like Hindutva exist, but they are a reactionary movement started after the threat of radical Islam in India; they are not following a religion that tells them to accept Rama or die; they are pushing back against an oppressive regime, and yes; their actions are wrong. But it doesn't stem from Hindu teaching. It stems from years and years of oppression from radical Islam in India. The difference is, Christians are doing what they were taught to do, because the Bible and the Quran do both teach to kill nonbelievers, that they will be tortured in hell, and that they must believe or perish. That's not a concept in Hinduism.

I feel like if you did read it, you might learn something. It's not part of my sect, but it is a good read.

 

[Ashoka]

God is holy, ....but,. also merciful. There is a place where all the atrocities that you (and I) so incessantly protest, will not exist. Don't place your hope in this world, it's a vile cesspool and we're all guilty of making it so. Yes, that's good and positive news!

I believe so as well, but we have different views on it; I believe that the reason we are in such decline is because of Kali Yuga. This is the age of Dharma decline. But it will end, and we will live in Satya Yuga again. This is a normal cycle of things.

 

[DNB]

That's still not taking responsibility. They claim to follow Christ; therefore, Christian. This goes for anyone of any denomination. It's just so awfully convenient for other Christians not to claim them, as if it absolves them from responsibility, but the truth is, your religion is responsible for a lot of damage to this world, be it through wars, colonization, or missionary work. They demonize anyone not like them.

You're right; not every Hindu follows Hindu conduct, but Hinduism also doesn't say to kill nonbelievers and that they are going to hell. Yes, groups like Hindutva exist, but they are a reactionary movement started after the threat of radical Islam in India; they are not following a religion that tells them to accept Rama or die; they are pushing back against an oppressive regime, and yes; their actions are wrong. But it doesn't stem from Hindu teaching. It stems from years and years of oppression from radical Islam in India. The difference is, Christians are doing what they were taught to do, because the Bible and the Quran do both teach to kill nonbelievers, that they will be tortured in hell, and that they must believe or perish. That's not a concept in Hinduism.

I feel like if you did read it, you might learn something. It's not part of my sect, but it is a good read.

You're clearly applying a double standard. You, who were formerly a Christian, I haven't a clue where you got the notion that Jesus said to kill the unbeliever. Even Judaism does not state this. The Mosaic Law commanded that any Jew who blasphemes God or transgresses any of the capital crimes, shall die . And, as far as the genocide committed against certain nations by the Jews, these were wicked people who burned their children to pagan idols, and committed countless other extremely egregious crimes on a daily basis. But, again, these were the Jews, not Christians. If Jesus never said it, then those who abide by it, are not Christians.

Jesus claimed that those who do not repent and accept the Father's forgiveness, will not enter into eternal life, but eternal anguish. The anguish is caused by their own regret and frustration, for not accepting God's gracious gift. The burning is self inflicted, God is not stoking any fires - God does not apply corporeal punishment for crimes of the heart..

 

[DNB]

I believe so as well, but we have different views on it; I believe that the reason we are in such decline is because of Kali Yuga. This is the age of Dharma decline. But it will end, and we will live in Satya Yuga again. This is a normal cycle of things.

You speak in a very esoteric manner, that is based on conjecture and no fact or evidence. No one has ever been reincarnated, as everyone that you meet, from every age, to every culture, all act like they were born yesterday. No one is learning anything from history, an eighteen year old always acts like an eighteen year old, same with a 30 year old, or an eighty year old. Outside of a few exceptions, this is the norm - no one has lived more than once.

 

[Ashoka]

You speak in a very esoteric manner, that is based on conjecture and no fact or evidence. No one has ever been reincarnated, as everyone that you meet, from every age, to every culture, all act like they were born yesterday. No one is learning anything from history, an eighteen year old always acts like an eighteen year old, same with a 30 year old, or an eighty year old. Outside of a few exceptions, this is the norm - no one has lived more than once.

This was me just sharing what I believe. Obviously, not everyone will agree and that's okay. You shared what you believed as well, when you said there is a place where evil does not exist (heaven).

You're clearly applying a double standard. You, who were formerly a Christian, I haven't a clue where you got the notion that Jesus said to kill the unbeliever. Even Judaism does not state this. The Mosaic Law commanded that any Jew who blasphemes God or transgresses any of the capital crimes, shall die . And, as far as the genocide committed against certain nations by the Jews, these were wicked people who burned their children to pagan idols, and committed countless other extremely egregious crimes on a daily basis. But, again, these were the Jews, not Christians. If Jesus never said it, then those who abide by it, are not Christians.

Luke 19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Exodus 22:20
“He who sacrifices to any god, other than to the Lord alone, shall be utterly destroyed."


Deuteronomy 17:2-7
“If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the Lord your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. "

2 Chronicles 15:12-13
And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

The Bible is quoted and used by Christians in and out of context (whatever that means) every day. Jesus may not have said it, but God commanded it. Their God commanded all of this. The same God that supposedly sent Jesus.

 

[DNB]

This was me just sharing what I believe. Obviously, not everyone will agree and that's okay. You shared what you believed as well, when you said there is a place where evil does not exist (heaven).



Luke 19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Exodus 22:20
“He who sacrifices to any god, other than to the Lord alone, shall be utterly destroyed."


Deuteronomy 17:2-7
“If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the Lord your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. "

2 Chronicles 15:12-13
And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

The Bible is quoted and used by Christians in and out of context (whatever that means) every day. Jesus may not have said it, but God commanded it. Their God commanded all of this. The same God that supposedly sent Jesus.

You quoted Jesus telling a parable, shame on you.
Like I said, we all deserve to die if we don't revere God as He deserves. But, Like i said, that was written to the Jews and is not binding on Christians - you have a very poor understanding of the Bible. That's shameful for someone who claims to formerly have been one. ...apparently, you left for all the wrong reasons.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..that was written to the Jews and is not binding on Christians..

Funny you should say that..
I have not seen Jesus to be reported as claimimg to be anything other than a Jew in the Gospels.
I also don't see anything about him changing major Jewish laws, apart from their interpretation.
eg. what constitutes "work" on the sabbath, or not being so quick in condemning people to death etc.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You quoted Jesus telling a parable, shame on you

Really? Shame on her?
Don't forget your Jesus commanded you to not judge, and warned that what you judge against others will be judged against you.

Like I said, we all deserve to die if we don't revere God as He deserves.

He doesn't deserve it. He's cruel, he's bloodthirsty, he is extremely violent. If he thinks we all deserve to die he deserves nothing but scorn and contempt.

 

[DNB]

Funny you should say that..
I have not seen Jesus to be reported as claimimg to be anything other than a Jew in the Gospels.
I also don't see anything about him changing major Jewish laws, apart from their interpretation.
eg. what constitutes "work" on the sabbath, or not being so quick in condemning people to death etc.

Well, you're right. During Jesus' time a blasphemer was still to be stoned, as even Jesus himself was subjected to the threat by the Pharisees for alleged blasphemy. And, that one of his missions on earth was to fulfill the Law perfectly.
Either way, the point that I was rebutting was that Christians do not abide by those precepts, as they have been formally abolished upon Jesus' death and subsequent resurrection.

 

[DNB]

Really? Shame on her?
Don't forget your Jesus commanded you to not judge, and warned that what you judge against others will be judged against you.

He doesn't deserve it. He's cruel, he's bloodthirsty, he is extremely violent. If he thinks we all deserve to die he deserves nothing but scorn and contempt.

God's not in the rain.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

God's not in the rain.

Yes, your god isn't omnipotent and can't be everywhere, you've said this. My gods are everywhere, even in the rain.
Anything else to add? Like, something productive?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Luke 19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I must be losing my edge because I have somehow forgot about that one.

 

[Ashoka]

You quoted Jesus telling a parable, shame on you.
Like I said, we all deserve to die if we don't revere God as He deserves. But, Like i said, that was written to the Jews and is not binding on Christians - you have a very poor understanding of the Bible. That's shameful for someone who claims to formerly have been one. ...apparently, you left for all the wrong reasons.

Oh come on. You're not even trying anymore.

I quoted a parable told by Jesus, which is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning (as I was told as a child). Just as there was meaning with the parable of the sower, or in the parable of the 10 virgins, there is meaning in this one. Shame on me? Come on now. What do you think Jesus was talking about when he said "I never knew you" in the parable of the 10 virgins? He was saying that he never knew those who did not get "saved". Here, he is saying that those who refuse to have him as king will be killed. In front of him.

I was raised on the Bible. There's nothing you can tell me about it that will startle me or surprise me. I memorized the book.

God's not in the rain.

That's your response to her? If this was a real debate you would have been kicked out.

I must be losing my edge because I have somehow forgot about that one.

It's okay, a lot of people do.

 

[Hawkins]

It obviously has nothing to do with god being helpless to intervene because of the killer’s free will.

You lack the intelligence to speculate things correctly. Perhaps the god of this world blinded your mind?

God is to build a Heaven, not earth. An analogy is, someone is to build an aquarium while your complaint is why there is dirt in the filter. Earth acts as a filter for the building of Heaven. All evil will show up here and will thus be witnessed and destroyed once and for all by Law legitimately through a legal process called the Final Judgment, such that the cleanness of the 'aquarium' can be secured.

As for victims, if they are saved God will make sure that they will never complain in eternity. That's how He wipes out our tears as prophesied. So if the victims never complain in eternity, then what's that to you?!

 

[QuestioningMind]

You lack the intelligence to speculate things correctly. Perhaps the god of this world blinded your mind?

God is to build a Heaven, not earth. An analogy is, someone is to build an aquarium while your complaint is why there is dirt in the filter. Earth acts as a filter for the building of Heaven. All evil will show up here and will thus be witnessed and destroyed once and for all by Law legitimately through a legal process called the Final Judgment, such that the cleanness of the 'aquarium' can be secured.

As for victims, if they are saved God will make sure that they will never complain in eternity. That's how He wipes out our tears as prophesied. So if the victims never complain in eternity, then what's that to you?!

If you disagree with me then you think that god is incapable of taking the lives of his creations because it would violate their free will. Is that what you think?

 

[DNB]

Yes, your god isn't omnipotent and can't be everywhere, you've said this. My gods are everywhere, even in the rain.
Anything else to add? Like, something productive?

My God is transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, holy and wise.
Yours is just water?

 

[DNB]

Come on now. What do you think Jesus was talking about when he said "I never knew you" in the parable of the 10 virgins? He was saying that he never knew those who did not get "saved". Here, he is saying that those who refuse to have him as king will be killed. In front of him..

Yes, what you said may be more relevant than I originally stated. My point was though, that you were making Jesus appear to be barbaric by this example, which applying the actual slaughter of the rebels to Jesus, was a gross misrepresentation of the allegory (circumstances were not real, the broad message was). Yes, rebels will die in one form or another. but it will not be Jesus who cuts them down.

I was raised on the Bible. There's nothing you can tell me about it that will startle me or surprise me. I memorized the book.

Well, that's impressive, I wish that I could say the same. But, Ashoka, I really feel that you did not grasp the over-all message if you felt it worthy to renounce, and accuse it of wickedness and tyranny?
The mercy and grace revealed by God in the Bible is ineffable.

That's your response to her? If this was a real debate you would have been kicked out.

..I believe applauded!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My God is transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, holy and wise.
Yours is just water?

How do you get "just water" when I said "everywhere, including the rain."

 

[DNB]

How do you get "just water" when I said "everywhere, including the rain."

Ok, water and sand, and maybe some seashells.