“How can we resist the temptation to look at pornograph ?

[Guitar's Cry]

Use the link in Cynthia's post above.

Aha! Thanks!

Good article, and again, another reason why there need to be accountability. I am glad that the article did emphasize the pressure amateur, user-submitted stuff is putting on the porn industry.

I think the porn industry is capitalizing on the "extreme" in the same way people rubberneck an accident on the highway.

 

[Vinayaka]

“How can we resist the temptation to look at pornography?
Three helpful steps are (1)*Quickly averting our view if we are exposed to erotic imagery. (2)*Guarding our thoughts by focusing on positive things and praying to God. (3)*Guarding our step by avoiding films or Web sites that contain pornography.

Just don't. With practice it gets easier I suppose.

 

[Riverwolf]

And porn harms a person's libido and their interpersonal relationships.

It can, but it won't necessarily.

I watch porn without guilt, and Moonwater is perfectly aware of this fact and is perfectly fine with it. She's my first and thus far only girlfriend, for the past 7 years.

Our relationship is not harmed at all. And this is because porn isn't the only form of sexual expression I expose myself to, and I identify most strongly with the women involved, not the men. As such, I avoid quite deliberately any porn with sketchy origins.

Since I, myself, am a counter-example to your absolute statement, your statement as an absolute is wrong.

 

[Riverwolf]

The damage porn does has nothing to do with us becoming a more sex+ society. It causes damage because to some people it becomes an addictive substance.

How can something that's non-substantial become an addictive substance?

 

[Riverwolf]

Those people need to be filtered out. After that, the true exhibitionists can do whatever they want. I guarantee that there won't be much porn after that, though, since there's not many people who would enjoy the idea of broadcasting their sexual acts to the world. That's a fetish that a small minority of people truly have.

And how do you know that to be the case? And even if it is the case, how can you know that the number of exhibitionists won't rise in the future?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It can, but it won't necessarily.

I watch porn without guilt, and Moonwater is perfectly aware of this fact and is perfectly fine with it. She's my first and thus far only girlfriend, for the past 7 years.

Our relationship is not harmed at all. And this is because porn isn't the only form of sexual expression I expose myself to, and I identify most strongly with the women involved, not the men. As such, I avoid quite deliberately any porn with sketchy origins.

Since I, myself, am a counter-example to your absolute statement, your statement as an absolute is wrong.

Gentoo and I enjoy watching porn together and it's a positive addition to our sex life.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

How can something that's non-substantial become an addictive substance?

I think the addiction from porn is similar to the addiction to video games. It feeds off our natural reactions to certain stimuli in a way that is hard to manage for some. It becomes a chemical addiction, with the body providing the chemicals.

 

[Riverwolf]

I am not saying that we outlaw it, I am saying that it is not a good idea to tell people who struggle with addiction that they can do it too just because you can do it without being damage. People struggle with porn addiction and they need to be encouraged to counter their addiction not to indulge it further.

I absolutely agree. If someone is addicted to porn, then they should be as strict about whatever plan they have to counter it as anyone with an addiction to anything else would be, whether that be abstinence or strictly regulated exposure.

I would not "recommend" watching porn to anyone, for any reason. If someone doesn't watch porn, fine. But neither will I criticize anyone for watching any kind of porn, even if it's a kind I find repulsive (unless it's actually illegal).

 

[Riverwolf]

I didn't say it was a critique of porn itself. I was rebutting the ideas of some that porn is harmless.

I see. (Took me this long to get here since that initial response.)

Far as I'm concerned, it's as harmless as anything else in this world. Even too much water will kill you.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think the addiction from porn is similar to the addiction to video games. It feeds off our natural reactions to certain stimuli in a way that is hard to manage for some. It becomes a chemical addiction, with the body providing the chemicals.

I did talk about that in my initial response to this thread. That's not actually "addiction", and calling it that does a major disservice both to actual addictions, and what this is properly called: compulsion.

One doesn't get addicted to Facebook or free-to-play games; one gets compulsion to them (because many of them are designed to induce compulsive behavior/spending, by utilizing psychological tricks such as operant conditioning).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

And how do you know that to be the case? And even if it is the case, how can you know that the number of exhibitionists won't rise in the future?

Just a hunch based on my observations.

I see. (Took me this long to get here since that initial response.)

Far as I'm concerned, it's as harmless as anything else in this world. Even too much water will kill you.

I have provided proof that porn is not harmless. It's tied up in social issues that involve exploitation, objectification, sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, the spread of skewed ideas of sexuality, etc. It does not exist in a vacuum.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I did talk about that in my initial response to this thread. That's not actually "addiction", and calling it that does a major disservice both to actual addictions, and what this is properly called: compulsion.

One doesn't get addicted to Facebook or free-to-play games; one gets compulsion to them (because many of them are designed to induce compulsive behavior/spending).

That probably is a better term for it. There is some disagreement in the medical field on this subject:



EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_addiction#Criticism

 

[Riverwolf]

Just a hunch based on my observations.

I'm afraid such things are generally bad ways to make such sweeping statements as if they were absolute.

I have provided proof that porn is not harmless. It's tied up in social issues that involve exploitation, objectification, sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, the spread of skewed ideas of sexuality, etc. It does not exist in a vacuum.

Nothing exists in a vacuum, but again, this isn't porn itself, but the industry.

You haven't provided proof, anyway; you've provided support for your argument. It's good support, to be sure, but it's not infallible or irrefutable.

All the problems you list here, I can apply to pretty much all of mainstream Western media, not just porn.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm afraid such things are generally bad ways to make such sweeping statements as if they were absolute.

Do you evidence to the contrary?

Nothing exists in a vacuum, but again, this isn't porn itself, but the industry.

I didn't say it was porn itself.

You haven't provided proof, anyway; you've provided support for your argument. It's good support, to be sure, but it's not infallible or irrefutable.

All the problems you list here, I can apply to pretty much all of mainstream Western media, not just porn.

I have provided proof that pornography can be harmful, unless you didn't bother to actually read my posts and look at the links I've posted. Unless you're nitpicking over words and I should say the pornographic industry instead.

 

[Riverwolf]

Do you evidence to the contrary?

You don't have evidence for the statement yourself. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

I didn't say it was porn itself.

I have provided proof that pornography can be harmful, unless you didn't bother to actually read my posts and look at the links I've posted. Unless you're nitpicking over words and I should say the pornographic industry instead.

In fact, I am saying that, because in a debate like this, you have to be clear on what you're talking about. It's not a nitpick at all; it's about a crucial distinction for the sake of mutual understanding.

If you don't specify the porn industry, but just use porn, then it will sound very much like you're attacking the entire concept of pornography, rather than just the industry. The worst thing that can happen in a debate is that all parties are talking past each other.

In any case, articles are not proof, no matter what their content. They're support for your argument. And like I said, they're good support. When it comes to the porn industry, I absolutely agree with you. It's very problematic, potentially quite harmful in today's sex-negative and largely sex-illiterate society, and needs to change.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, if you want stuff about how porn itself is bad, here: Your Brain On Porn | Evolution has not prepared your brain for today's Internet porn

Have it at. Me, personally? You can watch whatever you want. That's your business.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, if you want stuff about how porn itself is bad, here: Your Brain On Porn | Evolution has not prepared your brain for today's Internet porn

Have it at. Me, personally? You can watch whatever you want. That's your business.

Yes, the wikipedia article that Guitar's Cry linked to earlier had a similar thing to say. It also pointed out that this is an area where relatively little research is being done, and so there's a lot of conflicting data. (And for the record, a website with a URL like that is of dubious credibility).

But, again, that's about addictive behavior, which not everyone has. It can also be applied to just about any other form of media, not just porn. Like I pointed out earlier, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of games that are designed to induce compulsive behavior, which can mimic addictive behavior.

Heck, if I'm addicted to any internet activity, I'm far more addicted to these forums than I am to just about anything else. Are these forums, therefore, bad for everyone?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, the wikipedia article that Guitar's Cry linked to earlier had a similar thing to say. It also pointed out that this is an area where relatively little research is being done, and so there's a lot of conflicting data. (And for the record, a website with a URL like that is of dubious credibility).

But, again, that's about addictive behavior, which not everyone has. It can also be applied to just about any other form of media, not just porn. Like I pointed out earlier, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of games that are designed to induce compulsive behavior, which can mimic addictive behavior.

Heck, if I'm addicted to any internet activity, I'm far more addicted to these forums than I am to just about anything else. Are these forums, therefore, bad for everyone?

Doing drugs isn't bad for everyone, either.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It also pointed out that this is an area where relatively little research is being done, and so there's a lot of conflicting data. (And for the record, a website with a URL like that is of dubious credibility).

It was an interesting article, but the site itself isn't by professionals:

From the "About Us": About Us | Your Brain On Porn

This site is maintained by a group effort that includes men who have recovered from internet-porn related problems and a retired anatomy & physiology teacher.

And they even state that therapists "need educating": Educating Your Therapist | Your Brain On Porn

Getting help for issues related to excessive porn use is a fine idea, but many therapists have no conception of how addictive today's hyperstimulating Internet porn is. Many were trained when static, softcore Playboy was porn, and before the recent brain science that is helping to explain the close parallels between extremely stimulating substances and behaviors—both of which can produce addictions. Some counselors have even been trained to suggest porn use as a therapeutic tool!

Not that it's bad advice, since sometimes professionals can be out of touch. But it does suggest that the site may have bias.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I didn't claim the site was unbiased. That site presents one aspect of criticism of pornography. It can be criticized in many ways - religious, health, leftist, feminist, etc. critiques. All make various valid points.

Too bad horroble isn't her. She could give us a great radical feminist critique of porn.