POST TWO OF TWO
C. Bonner reminded us in 1937 that “…no part of the original writings, Hebrew of Aramaic, which entered into the composite work, has survived in the original Language. The Greek version, in which the church read enoch , also disappeared.” (Campbell Bonner, The Last Chapters of...
Hi @IndigoChild5559
@IndigoChild5559 said : "Enoch has never been a part of either Jewish or Christian canon, with the exception of the Ethiopian church, which has a very very different idea what the nature of canon is." (post #11)
1) A working definition of what constitutes an individuals'...
POST ONE OF TWO
TWO JEHOVAHS WITNESS THEORIES
Bree said : “The word 'spirit' is used in the bible in various ways...sometimes the word means 'wind' and as you point out from the book of Enoch (not a christian text btw) it means breath.”
These two claims are, historically, incoherent. For...
“Canon” is an arbitrary standard that has been grossly misunderstood and misapplied. Originally, the canon (which means “standard” or “measure”) was simply “stuff that’s ok to read in church.” It was a basis, not a disqualifier. We use it to determine what’s “valid.” But that wasn’t the...
POST TWO OF TWO
Though “Christian enoch” (i.e. the Greek Enoch) was important, the discovery of Enoch among the dead sea scrolls in such great numbers is the discovery showing Hebrew Enoch was first. In 1956, Father J.T. Milik announced eight different enoch fragments among the dead sea texts...
Hi @Xavier Graham SA
I do not think you are alone in your ponderings about scriptures and literality and what form they may have taken historically as opposed to the later versions.
Specifically : Regarding your observation that Enoch was quoted as scripture by the writer of Jude :
I notice...
Jews do not accept Enoch as canon. Protestants do not accept Enoch as canon. Catholics don't. Eastern Orthodox don't. In fact, the only group that incorporates Enoch is the Orthodox Tehawedo Chruch of Ethiopia, which really has an entirely different defintiion of what canon means.
In short...
But hang on, if you don't feel the need to take every bit literally, why is it such a big deal whether one particular obscure book is put in or left out? Surely that is unlikely to affect the key messages the bible conveys, isn't it?
How does that follow? Firstly, St. Jude may simply be quoting Enoch, and another work is separately quoting him. Secondly, even if he is quoting that work it does not follow that it should be canon, for St. Paul quoted pagan poets and they are not canon. Quoting a work doesn't make it inspired...
I grew up in Protestant churches that taught Biblical literalism. Churches also teach that the canon of the Bible and the Bible’s present form is perfect, thanks to divine guidance.
Gotquestions is a good reflection of the Protestant sentiment I have encountered in real life, so I’ll use them...
Something I would ask myself Tzephanyahu, is why is Jude in the early Greek Canon, while Enoch is excluded from the early Hebrew Canon?
Then I would ask myself, if God wanted it to be there, would it not be there? So why is it not there?
Then I would question myself further. Does it give any...
That’s not technically accurate. The Apostle Jude clearly references 1 Enoch. (Jude1:14-15 and 1 Enoch 1:9). What then, was Jude not inspired? It’s in your canon. The Messiah practically quotes 2 Esdras verbatim (Matthew 23:37-38 and 2 Esdras 30:34). Will you concede that as a possibility...
And you cannot just ignore verses that have a plain meaning, especially when you have no explanation for them. What do you think the context of these verses within the chapters is?
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also...
You can't just take some verses at the expense of the others and context is important.,.
John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Acts 1: 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing...
I think this is a regrettable stance, which I presume emerged from replacement theology and the oft acrimonious partisan environment of Jewish-Christian relations after the destruction of the Temple.
It is apparent that the New Testament authors were very deeply embedded in their Second Temple...
What happens at the conclusion of the Investigative Judgment of the wicked by the Saints?
REVELATION 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
REVELATION 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog...
POST TWO OF FOUR
Looking back, there were so many sacred texts quoted in early Christian documents, it was also difficult to know which texts WERE sacred to them before any of the various Christian “canons” were arbitrarily decided upon. The Apostolic Fathers are a group of Christian texts...