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  1. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    Risen, You have added a great deal to what is already a backlog of pertinent points that I should address. However, I think the portion of your last post should be answered before delving into specifics. The insinuation that I am characterizing the relationship between the synoptics as...
  2. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    Rise, First and foremost, I would like to comment on how much I have enjoyed our exchange. I am new to this board as my old religion discussion board is closing and this has been the kind of interaction that I am looking for. You are an erudite and capable apologist who is familiar with the...
  3. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    Another interesting surviving fragment that we do possess from Papias is: As the elders who saw John the disciple of the Lord remembered that they had heard from him how the Lord taught in regard to those times, and said]: The days will come in which vines shall grow, having each ten thousand...
  4. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    Although I believe that I did state earlier that what we have is ‘speculation’, I will reiterate it here. We do not have video tapes, multiply-attested, securely dated contemporaneous accounts from witness hostile and friendly, nor the use of a time-machine. We are both building a case based on...
  5. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    As what is before us is to a large extent a Historical question, we should apply when of the central axioms of historical research, the Principle of Analogy. In fact, we all use this principle in our daily lives without realizing it. Briefly stated, we do evaluate claims based upon creating...
  6. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    It is possible, but the critical approach deals with what is more probable rather than with what is simply possible as a great many things are possible. To put it exceptionally briefly – there is an inferred relationship between the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Luke, and Mark) because of degrees...
  7. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    Thanks, it does strike me as an honest, dispassionate attempt. Nonetheless, I think some elements are built upon ‘hand-waving’ with respect to objections. For example, the author states: “Of the ten miracle healing stories found in Mark, only eight are to be found in Matthew and Luke. The...
  8. tfvespasianus

    Which Gospel Came First?

    Briefly, I think many attempts at making the case for Matthean primacy are rooted in an apologetic agenda. That is, it is discomfiting to some that a gospel traditionally attributed to an apostle is actually an expansion of a gospel traditionally attributed to a non-apostle. I don’t see the same...
  9. tfvespasianus

    Refugee from another site

    I'll take two sets of chicken feet and something with taro in it.
  10. tfvespasianus

    Refugee from another site

    Greetings, I am new here. I was seeking a new place to discuss religion as my former venue (Discuss Christianity on Beliefnet) is ‘closing its doors’. I am not a religious person, but religion, more specifically Christianity has been something more than a hobby for me for several decades. That...
  11. tfvespasianus

    Textual Criticism Versus Providential Preservation?

    I think it’s unwise to dismiss an entire field based upon one interpretation of a known variant. The variant in question is plainly shown to be attested in a widely read edition of the bible which throws into question the basis for discrediting the whole disciple as incompetent or acting in bad...
  12. tfvespasianus

    Textual Criticism Versus Providential Preservation?

    Alfred Persson, Greetings - I am new to this board, but thought I would reply. The variant you note (i.e. 'e' versus 'on') is duly foot-noted in the bible I consult. I could even grant that your reading may be preferable. That being the case, to what extent does one critical judgement that is...
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