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  1. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    What is the context of the statement by Clement? Who is he talking to? It sounds like he is referring to some regional succession of authority, not necessarily the apostolic succession of authority. I also gather that he is reprimanding someone (or some group) for erroneously removing wothy...
  2. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    You're correct that the N.T. won't directly answer your question, at least with an explicit statement that would eliminate this debate altogether. However there is considerable evidence that some form of authority was passed on. I'll illustrate with a few scriptures: Acts 1 : 2. Until the...
  3. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    That's fine, you can stick to your "crowd control" theory, but I continue to believe that the 12 apostles were intended for much more important things as they are mentioned many times throughout the N.T. text as if there was indeed something special about their calling.
  4. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    Look, the fact is this: the N.T. clearly states that Jesus ordained 12 Apostles (that sounds pretty official to me, but you're free to your opinion) and in Matthew the names of all the original 12 are given. Further in Acts, as I have mentioned, we learn that at least early on, there was an...
  5. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    I'm not suggesting that Jesus called a council to seek their advice. He called apostles, 12 of them, to preach the gospel and help meet the spiritual needs of the rest of the disciples. OK so don't call it a council, the point is that he organized 12 Apostles to teach his gospel. Luke 6:13 -...
  6. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    Did Jesus not call (organize, establish, etc) a group (quarom, council, etc) of 12 men to be Apostles? The N.T. provides ample evidence that such a group (quarom, council, etc) existed. And is that not some form of organization? Then when Matthias was called to fill the vacancy left by the...
  7. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    OK first of all the council of Twelve was a term I used to distinguish the leading 12 Apostles. Second, how is this statement contradictory? I don't see Clement claiming that there should be no succession of 12 apostles. If you insist that he was indeed claiming that, maybe he (and the apostles...
  8. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    In several scriptures Paul is referred to as an Apostle. Like I said however it is debatable if that refers to the leading council of 12 Apostles or not. The first time Paul is mentioned as an Apostle occurs after the reported beheading of James (Acts 12:2). Thanks you make my point quite...
  9. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    You're correct that there were more than 12 Apostles, but I'm suggesting that there existed a leading council of 12 Apostles that constituted the primary leadership and authority of the church. From what little information we have it appears that Paul was made an Apostle some time near or after...
  10. K

    LDS question about becoming a God.

    Where does Jesus Christ fit into this?
  11. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    After reading the above response I decided to investigate it a little further because you seemed to have a point. I found out what actual Greek word was used where we see bishopric in the KJV, and it was episkopes, which is literally translated/defined as follows (according to an online ancient...
  12. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    No*s OK, for the most part I am satisfied with your answers. If the historical description that you've provided is accurate I believe you have a lot stronger foundation than the Roman Catholic church. There are two aspects of a religion that I consider vital in establishing credible grounds...
  13. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    Hi May, you win, I'm confused, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with this.
  14. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    Good posts. And thanks for the link, I'll take a look into it. I had never heard that prophets attended the Councils, I had always understood they were regional bishops or other local leaders. If prophets were indeed part of the council why weren't the correct doctrines simply declared by the...
  15. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    You have a point, the different Christian groups (those who differed on some point of doctrine) were definitely coming together. But I don't believe the empire was helpless to stop it, on the contrary after the conversion of Constantine, Christianity became protected and Constantine's desire for...
  16. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    Fair enough. The main group that comes to mind is the Arians. They were a group of Christians who believed that Jesus was the Son of God -- a seperate person, as opposed to the trinitarian notion that they are part of the same. The Arian beliefs had acquired a significant following in Alexandria...
  17. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    OK that makes more sense. What scriptures do you use? So do you consider Christianity and Buddism incomplete religions since they don't acknowledge the divinity of the other? Was it Baha`u'llah that formalized this belief in the "Manifestations of God" or is there precedence for it in the...
  18. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    OK, I'm trying to understand what you meant here. So you believe that both Buddha and Jesus were prophet-like figures? But you don't necessarily believe that Buddha preached reincarnation? Do you believe the Bible? I believe that there is much that is consistant between the teachings of...
  19. K

    Roots of Modern Christianity

    Victor, thanks for the links, I'll try to read through them the quantity is a little overwhelming, but worth it to me. From what I've studied, I agree with you through the first few centuries, when Apostles were still around and their established branches were still fresh. It appears to me...
  20. K

    Just looking form some answers

    No, we can do nothing to pervert truth. It exists independent of what we think. And no not every interpretation is correct. On the contrary whenever two interpretations conflict one or both have to be flat out wrong.
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