Freelancer7
Active Member
I would love to see people share thier view of how they see the TRINITY.
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Personal Views: The Trinity
- Thread starter Freelancer7
- Start date
StashLazarus
New Member
I see God as the highest level of reality. God created one or more spirit worlds at a lower level of reality, and God created the material world at the lowest level of reality. Since God created the spirit world called “Heaven”, God transcends Heaven. This means that God is not in Heaven. The presence or incursion of God into the spirit world is called the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. This is not a separate God, but merely the presence of God in the spirit world of Heaven.
Christ is not a separate God, but a small piece of God that came into the world, sort of like a 'chip off the old block.'
No Trinity, One God.
Christ is not a separate God, but a small piece of God that came into the world, sort of like a 'chip off the old block.'
No Trinity, One God.
Freelancer7
Active Member
Thank God for a colledge in the Republic of Ireland, it's supposed to be a great education.x.
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
For me this is not some abstract idea or theory, this is a description of my God, the One True God, the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob - Jehovah my saviour. There is none like unto Him, He is beyond all comparison and His ways are far above my ways.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
So the myriad of references in the Bible to Him being "in Heaven" are wrong?
A small piece of God? So you don't believe that He is fully God, but just part of God?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
My view of the Trinity is that it is a flawed attempt on the part of the fourth and fifth century philosophers and theologians to describe what God is. It's a doctrine that, in my opinion, bears little resemblance to what the Bible has to say about God.
Scott1
Well-Known Member
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity". The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God." In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."
254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary." "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son." They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds." The divine Unity is Triune.
255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance." Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship." "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."
253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity". The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God." In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."
254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary." "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son." They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds." The divine Unity is Triune.
255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance." Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship." "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
I second what Scott said. The Catechism laid it out pretty nicely there.
StashLazarus
New Member
The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit is spoken of as coming from God since it is the presence of God in the spirit world of Heaven. The Holy Spirit is in Heaven. So, yes God is in Heaven even though God created Heaven and therefore transcends Heaven.
Jesus is God. Should the word "fully" be used to describe the Godhood of Christ? I don't know, Jesus never used that word to describe His Godhood.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
It matters little to most Christians how to understand the trinity.
It is a trap that Great thinkers have argued over for centuries.
The Trinity is one of the great mysteries.
It is self evident that God is singular.
to Christians it is also self evident that the Holy Spirit is amongst us always.
It is also self evident that Jesus came amongst us and returned to God.
The knowledge of exact relationship between the three into one Godhead is less important than believing that it is so.
Church-speak explaining it really is no help, as one needs to be well versed to even start to under stand the words used.
Had the understanding of a God, the Holy spirit and Jesus not been well entrenched, the need to come up with the Trinity may never have been required.
It is a trap that Great thinkers have argued over for centuries.
The Trinity is one of the great mysteries.
It is self evident that God is singular.
to Christians it is also self evident that the Holy Spirit is amongst us always.
It is also self evident that Jesus came amongst us and returned to God.
The knowledge of exact relationship between the three into one Godhead is less important than believing that it is so.
Church-speak explaining it really is no help, as one needs to be well versed to even start to under stand the words used.
Had the understanding of a God, the Holy spirit and Jesus not been well entrenched, the need to come up with the Trinity may never have been required.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
That's and interesting amalgamation of internal contradictions. Wow.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The contradictions in the Trinity are very evident and have been used to attack Christians through the ages.
My statement is a simplistic view of the situation... avoiding Church-speak.
Most will say they believe what they are taught in the catechism, with out understanding it one whit.
the whole concept of the Trinity is trying to square a circle of contradictions, this can only be done by altering the meaning of common words, to give them special meaning.
Freelancer7
Active Member
on a personal note, to me, three seperate entites. The son promises the father (and his God will be my God), the same as the son and his fathers faithfull servant John explains in revelations. The father being a higher manifstation than the son but still a chunk of creation itself the same as all things. What more would one want than the truth?
Forgive me for spelling college wrong I am a little thick sometimes! Should of perhaps gone myself.
Forgive me for spelling college wrong I am a little thick sometimes! Should of perhaps gone myself.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Obviously. I agree with you, but wonder how you would explain Jesus' statement, "I and my Father are one."
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Agreed.
So what does the word "and" denote? Last I knew, "and" is a conjunction that is only needed when speaking of more than one entity, regardless of whether or not a single "name" is shared by all them.
Three-in-one and one-in-three. Now where in the Bible would that be?
rocketman
Out there...
What does the word "the" denote? Last I knew God in the OT said he would never give his name to another.
There is no technical reason why it can't be Matt 28:19 . But each to their own.
Freelancer7
Active Member
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Huh?
Okay, so how is it that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost apparently have the same name? I don't think they do, but I do think that they share the title of "God."
Except that Matthew 28:19 doesn't even come close to saying that. This verse clearly states that there is a Father, a Son, and a Holy Ghost. As far as describing their relationship in the terms used by the fourth and fifth century creeds, it just doesn't do that.