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The reason the crowd choose Barabbus...
- Thread starter Quagmire
- Start date
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
What's the passage? My Biblical knowledge is not forthcoming. 
What's the passage? My Biblical knowledge is not forthcoming.
Don't have any of my bibles handy right now but I know it's in Luke, just before the crucifixion.
It's where Pilate asks the mob which prisoner they wanted him to release (there was a custom that the Roman prefect of Judea had to release one Jewish prisoner once a year during passover).
wiki-ed it; Barabbas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*Barabbas' crime
John 18:40 refers to Barabbas as a lēstēs, "bandit;" Mark and Luke further refer to Barabbas as one involved in a stasis, a riot. Mark 15:7; Luke 23:19. Matthew refers to Barabbas only as a "notorious prisoner." Matthew 27:16. Some scholars[attribution needed] posit that Barabbas was a member of the sicarii, a militant Jewish movement that sought to overthrow the Roman occupiers of their land by force, noting that Mark (15:7) mentions that he had committed murder in an insurrection.*
My mistake, looks like the story's told in all 4 gospels.
Point is; Jesus and Barabbas are presented as being yin and yang.
*Barabbas' crime
John 18:40 refers to Barabbas as a lēstēs, "bandit;" Mark and Luke further refer to Barabbas as one involved in a stasis, a riot. Mark 15:7; Luke 23:19. Matthew refers to Barabbas only as a "notorious prisoner." Matthew 27:16. Some scholars[attribution needed] posit that Barabbas was a member of the sicarii, a militant Jewish movement that sought to overthrow the Roman occupiers of their land by force, noting that Mark (15:7) mentions that he had committed murder in an insurrection.*
My mistake, looks like the story's told in all 4 gospels.
Point is; Jesus and Barabbas are presented as being yin and yang.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Matthew 27:20
But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
Mark 15:11
But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
Luke 23
13And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
14Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
15No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.
16I will therefore chastise him, and release him.
17(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
18And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
19(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
20Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
21But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
22And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.
23And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
24And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required. 25And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.
But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
Mark 15:11
But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
Luke 23
13And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
14Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
15No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.
16I will therefore chastise him, and release him.
17(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
18And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
19(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
20Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
21But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
22And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.
23And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
24And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required. 25And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.
It is a likely fiction.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Pilate could have always rearrested Barrabus later. He needed to quell a possible riot.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Herd mentality.
People acting as pawns of their religious leaders, much like we saw in Jonestown and Wako.
People acting as pawns of their religious leaders, much like we saw in Jonestown and Wako.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Pilate had also asked a leading question when he asked the crowd if they would have him execute "their king." they had to reply that they had no king but Ceasar or would have been in trouble of not recognizing Ceasar above all other Gods. They also condemned themselves with God by saying that Ceasar came before Him.
If you go by the gospels the accounts of Barabass' crimes vary. So, like most things in the gospels (IMO) we're left with trying to figure out what it is he's supposed to represent.
Looking at it from that angle, my opinion is that the author(s) placed the character of Barabass alongside Jesus for contrast; on the one hand we have the higher, enlightened self preaching self denial and universal compassion.
On the other hand we have the violent, chaotic, instinct driven self.
Barabass=the Id (instinct)
Jesus=the super ego (enlightened, altruistic self)
The crowd=the ego (the part of our minds that chooses between the two)
On an individual basis we have the super ego trying to get us to look at things on a higher level, and usually telling us to do things we'd rather not, and the Id, telling us to go for what we want regardless.
And then we have the ego trying to rationalize it all, "How can I get what I want and still look like I'm being noble and selfless while I'm doing it" (hence some flavors of religion)?
On a social level, like I said in the OP, if we're grading ourselves on the curve someone like Barabass is always going to be more popular.
*looks at Barabass and thinks, "Well, I'm not perfect, but who is? And at least I'm better than this guy"
looks at Jesus and thinks, "Well, I'm not perfect, but who is? And......oh yeah, him---CRUCIFY HIM"!
Um...are you saying it's likely that the story is fiction? Or that it's a fiction, but the events are likely to have happened at one time or another to someone or another? Or that my interpretaion is likely accurate, or...?
Kind of fits in with what I was saying though, ie, people going with whatever's easiest for them to live with.
Where is that in the gospels, Sandy? I keep thinking of Luke where it says Pilate wanted to release Jesus but the crowd demanded Barabass.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
You know, Quag, since last night I've been trying to come up with something mind-blowing to post about this, but I just can't. I love your Freudian interpretation of the ID, Ego, and Superego, though. It works well...
I imagine some will argue that it was fated for Barabbus to be chosen. After all, the choice made Jesus more powerful a figure. Would he have been as influential without being martyred?
I imagine some will argue that it was fated for Barabbus to be chosen. After all, the choice made Jesus more powerful a figure. Would he have been as influential without being martyred?
Thanks GC. If you study psychology and thoelogy together you start to see how are amazingly interchangable they are. Which only makes sense; one's about human relationship to God, the other's about human relationship to reality.
If you believe God is Reality and Reality is God, there's really no difference at all except language.
It followed the script, but we have to take the play scene by scene and character by character in order to understand what the author is saying.
Others would argue that this is one case where spelling matters. But it's an argument sadly out of place in a thread that seems to focus on the idle exchange of uninformed opinion.
Others would argue that this is one case where spelling matters. But it's an argument sadly out of place in a thread that seems to focus on the idle exchange of uninformed opinion.
Lol! Well, lets look at what we're talking about here Jay;
The Bible, one of the murkier bogs in the murky pond of human history. Something about which even the most "informed" concensus is largely based on guess work, ie, uninformed opinion.
Throw into the equation the fact that much of what we "know" about any of this is based on the interpretation of ancient languages, a topic of study which is itself rife with gaps in our understanding that have to be filled with guesswork, ie, uninformed opinion.
Then look at the fact that these are the tools we're trying to use to decipher symbology, allogory, and metaphor--a subject that's even more dependant on guesswork, ie, uninformed opinion.
Then, we try to add up all these fragmentary equations, come up with a reasonable idea of what the sum might be, and try to figure out how all this relates to us, "us" being an even bigger mystery than any of this other stuff....
And ultimately, how we, in light of whatever hypothesis' we've come up with in relation to all this, relate to the unknown and incomprehendable, ie, life, the universe, reality, or "God", any opinion of which is based almost entirley on theory, belief, or faith, ie, uniformed opinion.
Really Jay, we're all of us just playing with all this (including you).
Some of us just seem to be enjoying the game more than others.
blackout
Violet.
Thanks Stacey.
In formation =("This opinion currently under construction")
In-sight (looking in)
Or in many cases, laminated. those are the opinions that get us in trouble.
We all doctor up information a bit to fit our opinions.
Denigrating scholarship no doubt makes you feel more comfortable with opinions devoid of it.
What I find most telling about your rendering of 'Barabbus' is not simply that the spelling is faulty, but that the relationship between Barabbas and bar Abbas has been deemed noteworthy by everyone from Origen to Maccoby. The 'Barabbus' spelling strongly suggests complete ignorance of this relationship and the fact that this character is referred to as "Jesus bar Abbas" in many important early text variants.
One would expect that one who presumes to instruct us on "[t]he reason the crowd choose Barabbus" would know more ... :yes: