repentence

Is there a form of repentence and confession in your faith? How does it work? Do you confess to a Deity or a religious leader?

jewscout said:

Is there a form of repentence and confession in your faith? How does it work? Do you confess to a Deity or a religious leader?

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Yep .

We do both. The confession to a religious leader is designed to help us. He can look at what has happened, and help us repent and overcome the sin, and deal with its consequences. It isn't just the action that's a problem, it's what we do to ourselves, our relation with God, our relationship with our neighbors, and so on. Sin changes it all, and a spiritual guide helps us to deal with it better.

I'd hate to go it alone.

Yup, I pretty much agree with No*s on this one!
Not only do we confess our sins, but in order to actually be forgivin, we have to be truly sorry and you have to try your best to not do it again.

I ask for forgiveness from my God; as I don't go to church, I can hardly ask a priest. I do find though that the hardest act of repentance is allowing me to forgive myself.

I open up to my brothers in Christ. They know what I am working on, and provide insight and guidance. I think that confession leads to repentence if the Brother is willing to hold you responsible.

I, like NetDoc, believe confession is healthy in the life of a Christian. I believe repentance is a gift, and Christ working through us is the only way to repent.

The Orthodox Christian sees confession as a tool for healing which helps us in the fight for victory over sin.

As No*s aptly said we confess before both the Priest and Our Lord. It is understood that the priest is representative of the local body and when he pronounces absolution over you and the end of the confession he does it in the name of the Trinity.

Technically, we are confessing to Christ (facing the same direction as the Priest toward Christ's Icon) with the priest as our witness, we remain standing until the time of our verbage after discussion with the Priest and prayers, then we kneel before Christ with the Priest at our side to confess and receive absolution placeing the "scarf type" part of his ventments on your head and signing you with the cross as he prays. The prayer which I don't have in memory (he does) goes something like "as David fell before God when confronted for his sin by Nathan the prophet so this servant fall before you today repenting and turning from his/her sins and as you gave the Apostles authority to bind or loose and as that authority was passed to me a sinner, I pray to absolve -name- of his/her sins today going with no more thought or grief of the sins confessed and if any have been forgotten etc. let them be a weight no more, but let this child of yours be free and strive to sin no more with the peace that passes understanding guiding their life .........

It's is a beautiful time, I wish all could experience it..........at first I resisted it and was uncomfortable and held back going often, but lately I desire it more and more.

I'm an old man and joining the faith 8 years ago, my lifetime confession was quiet difficult as you may expect.

Do the Jewish have a form of confession????????

There is a daily blessing for repentence and forgiveness that is in the shemoneh esrei. Any form of repentence is offered up to G-d and G-d alone:jiggy:

Fir the Christian, the need to confess comes from:

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

There are a TON of "one another" or "each other" scriptures that show that we need to be actively involved in each other's lives.

I think that karma is a system of repentence and confession roled into one. After you have got your just desserts you realise exactly what it is that you did that was wrong and this realisation brings with it a certain amount of acceptance and a determination not to do it again. You are sort of forgiving yourself rather than pushing it into the murky depths of your mind.

I confess directly to God. I do believe he hears and forgives me. That is a big problem I have with the Catholic faiths. I mean, why not go direct? Other people in the Bible have done so. If you offend someone, you apologize to them first, of course, and try to make things right with them before you go to God. You can't expect God to forgive you for stealing, if you then go ahead and keep what you stole. I understand that part, so I do believe in making things right as best you can first. But unless your offence affected the priest directly, I don't see what good it would do to tell a total stranger your sins. And why would reciting a certain prayer solve anything? Sorry if I offended anyone by that. I am still open to hearing other viewpoints on the matter.

johnnys4life said:

I confess directly to God. I do believe he hears and forgives me.

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Yep.... sure does.

A little bit more on Roman Catholic confession:
Jesus' call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, "sackcloth and ashes," fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.

This is the part of the process that everyone seems to miss about our faith....... the interior conversion is paramount in the process. It is a conversion to God with our entire heart .

Conversion is first of all a work of the grace of God who makes our hearts return to him: "Restore us to thyself, O LORD, that we may be restored!"

The area of most confusion is that we confess and are forgiven by the Priest.... this is not the case:
The confessor is not the master of God's forgiveness, but its servant.

Please remember, that all of this is quite Scriptural:
John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

It also is represented by history.... with the earliest Christians, as seen in this quote and many others (i'll just show you one to get an idea)
"Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness[of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop." Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyraeans, 9 (c. A.D. 110).

Scott

Hey Scott,

While I can't speak for the "protestants" I would like to clear up a few things about the scriptures you used:

John 20: 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. 21 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Jesus was speaking to the DISCIPLES and not just the apostles. This is for ANYONE with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 9:5 Which is easier: to say, `Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, `Get up and walk'? 6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . ." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." 7 And the man got up and went home. 8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.

The crowd mistakenly thinks Jesus is "merely" a man. Nothing about priests here.

James 5:14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

This passage refers to the ELDERS of the church. Not apostles, not priests, not even the Pope!

Can't sleep, so I am going to try and reply to this. I'm trying to remember the things I was taught in Bible study. I'm pretty tired so I'm afraid I won't do it justice.

SOGFPP said:

A little bit more on Roman Catholic confession:
Jesus' call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, "sackcloth and ashes," fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.

This is the part of the process that everyone seems to miss about our faith....... the interior conversion is paramount in the process. It is a conversion to God with our entire heart .
Good!
Conversion is first of all a work of the grace of God who makes our hearts return to him: "Restore us to thyself, O LORD, that we may be restored!"

The area of most confusion is that we confess and are forgiven by the Priest.... this is not the case:
The confessor is not the master of God's forgiveness, but its servant.

And to all of the above I say, your church and I are in total agreement.

But the priest does say, "your sins are forgiven" doesn't he? Is that because he believes that God has actually forgiven the person because of their willingness to repent, or because they confessed...?

Please remember, that all of this is quite Scriptural:
John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

Well, I think here, different people will take a different approach on how to interpret it. I think what I was told was basically it was one of two things. Firstly, they think the disciples were told to go out and spread the gospel as a way of "forgiving sins". If they lead a person to accept Christ, that would mean they had been forgiven, if not, then not. That's the only way that made sense to them because they believe there is forgiveness through Christ alone, as the Bible does say "there is no other name under heaven by which a man may be saved". (Sorry, I don't have the exact verse there, so if it's being misquoted I do not know, I am just saying it from memory having heard it). See, Protestants, and I can't speak for ALL of them, generally believe that interpretation of scripture comes by way of the Holy Ghost living inside you, inside anyone who is truly "saved". So people in the faith who interpret it wrong I suppose are just not listening to God.

They didn't believe in the disciples or apostles having any special particular authority that we as Christians do not have, so it didn't matter who you confessed to, as long as they were believers, and they could pray for you, but you had to keep very much in mind the fact that it is GOD forgiving you, not the other person. But they normally did go direct, to Christ, and here is one passage that was often quoted to us:
http://www.religiousforums.com/bible/index.php?keyword=7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another °, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
http://www.religiousforums.com/bible/index.php?keyword=8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
http://www.religiousforums.com/bible/index.php?keyword=9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



They consider this as proof that you can go direct to Christ, and still be forgiven.

The other thing was, if I was told that Christians should confess thier sins to each other within the church, you must remember they consider the church the body of believers, that is the body of Christ - those who are faithful to him - anyone who is a true believer. (And at my old church, confessing your sins actually IN the church was very highly discouraged, a while back a man had stood up and said he was sleeping with another church member's wife, well that member had a husband and he went and shot the guy to death a few days later, so they were pretty much a 'keep your sins between you and God' type of church).

But at Bible study they couldn't quite get around those verses (the ones you quoted, so It was explained to me like this, if you had just one or two people you trusted enough to confess your sins to, that would be good enough, they grudgingly admitted that confession of some sort was necessary. And so I wonder now, why didn't they tell me that in church?

Personally, I always relied on other Christians, close friends, to confess, after I was told that. It has backfired a time or two. For a while I considered my husband as my confessor, and I still do, don't generally keeps sins from him, or at least not the ones I remember. The thought of confessing to a stranger, even if he is a priest and it is sort of his job, quite frankly scares the livin daylights out of me. It is not exactly a big wide welcome sign hovering over the Catholic church, not for me. In fact I think I remember that is one of the things that drove me away, when I aimlessly wandered into a Catholic church once at 15, and asked someone how do you become a Catholic? I remember they stressed how serious it was, and then brought up the part about confessing...and I couldn't hit the door fast enough. Didn't even know Jesus then, really.



James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick.

This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

Well, this is, I am trying to remember but I think they said sometimes if you are dealing with unconfessed sin it can make you sick, and so it's better to confess to the elders and be annointed. That's about as far as they went with it.

It also is represented by history.... with the earliest Christians, as seen in this quote and many others (i'll just show you one to get an idea)
"Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness[of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop." Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyraeans, 9 (c. A.D. 110).
Scott

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Now, I am not sure but I don't believe we Protestants give the early Christians much heed. I have never heard of them even being mentioned within my own circle, at Bible study or at church. It was only through my own reading at home that I ever came across the writings of any early saints. I suppose mostly they consider them unimportant as well, as they believe the 66 books that have been accepted by whomever as canonized, to be the only real guidance needed in our lives as Christians. As I have often heard it said, "66 books are quite enough!". Not sure I agree, but that's what I'm told.

Well, my husband said my first post on this subject was "totally tactless," and it was no wonder nobody here likes me, and that I was "so wrong in a lot of ways", and that you "actually have a point." And he isn't even remotely Catholic! Well, since I trust his spiritual guidance for the most part, I guess I will have to consider what he said, and consider your post some more. It is very hard when you've been taught something for a long time, and come to accept it, to see it in a very different way. But I'll try.