Who is Satan?

This just seriously sucks. Enough of the Satanist bashing people. You wouldn't like it if someone came into your area and bashed your religion. If you dont agree with it then fine but there are ways of putting this forward which are polite and constructive. Merely linking Satan to more negative things, such as AIDS, simply subconciously turns people against it for no good reason.

I know that there is a thin line here and free speech needs to be considered. But before you say anything just please wonder, if the same thing was said to you, how would you react to it? If the immediate argument that comes into your head is "well I wouldnt be offended by this and everyone who is, is an idiot" then don't, repeat DON'T, say it.

Okay sorry to go offtopic, please continue.

Satan is a powerful idea and thus generates powerful responces.
For some Satanists 'Satan' (here satan is a generic term used for the purpose of 1. generating ire among the self-rightious and/or 2. as a convienent catch all term that everyone has some experience with. Not everyone knows the name Set for example) is the ballanceing force of creation. Yin and Yang so to speak. Not evil per say, but nessisary for the function of the world.
For others Satan is the 'true god' concept, not bound by biblical constraints or the notion of good and evil.
There was a group of Gnosic Christian 'satan worshipers' who belived that this world was firmly in the grip of satan and that god was all foriving. Thus while they lived they payed lip service to satan to keep him from bothering them then on thier death beds they recanted and asked the all forgiving god for mercy in the afterlife. They wern't popular with 'major brand' christianity.

wa:do

Satan is a symbol for free will.
Go Satan.

From what I understand there are sorts of satanists: the Satan Worshippers, and the Iconoclasts.
The Satan worshippers are the people one would normally associate satanism too. They devote their lives to satan service. This doesn't seem to be a relatively large population by any means. I suppose one would have to believe most parts of teh Bible, but either be willingly against goodness, or believe that the Bible is only a corruption, and that what Satan has done is good.

Iconoclasts are the overwhelmingly majority of the satanists (so it seems to me). They are the anti-christians, anti-socialites, trend followers, people who want to make a statement that makes them look against the mainstream...... funny, how those last two go together... and any combination of the above, or more. They don't necessarily believe in satan, or anything else. Satanism is the monicker that they adopt because they try to go against the flow, as satan would go against the Christian flow. It's more a name of symbolism than a designator of their worship.

I'm curious though, who here considers themselves into these categories, or others?

What is attracting me more and more is the fact that Satan seems to be the underdog. Christianity is the majority, anyone who doesn't completely believe everything will burn in Hell. If I am going there anyway, why not read up on it beofre I go?

Dammit I wanted to give you karma for that remark huajiro but it wont let me . The underdog thing has been the same source for my interest in Satanism as well ya see .

Not problem....it is the thought that counts...thnx

It's hard to give an all-encompassing view of Satan and his "followers" in just a quick reply to a forum board. But I guess this a great alternative to discussion groups for people with geography against them.

To begin with, evil is not an entity as some would understand an entity. This is the same as saying cold is not an entity; it is simply the absence of heat (think about it - there is no way to measure cold, we only can measure heat). Evil (sin) is simply the absence of good (God). That is also why nobody, not even God, could create evil - it is not something that can be create, destroyed, or even measured. Evil simply comes into "existence" when good (God) is taken out of the picture. That is precisely how Satan got his start as such as "evil" being. What Lucifer did was try to become God's equal; he did not try to be "better" than God or even completely de-thrown Him, he simply wanted to be equal with God. In order to do that, he relied on His own strength, he turned to himself and willingly forsook the power that God had given him (which was conciderable).

God saw what had happened with Lucifer turning against Him and had no other choice than to create a new home for Lucifer and the other angels he had rallied together for his cause. This is where we get Hell - the all-encompassing absence of God.

Soon after (maybe instantly) Lucifer realized his fate; that he could never overcome or be equal to God and that his final sentence is banishment and utter destruction. Instead of repenting, Lucifer got pissed, perhaps depressed, and decided to make it his mission to sway as many people away from God and eternal, blissful life as possible. In other words; he knows he's going down and he's going to bring as many people down with him as he can. From then on he started to take on new names and titles: the accuser, the tempter, the evil one, the devil, Satan, etc...

Worshipping Satan is really another form of humanist self worship, astrology and worshipping the stars, the Earth, or anything else that was created. Satan himself is a part of creation, he is not self-sustaining as only God Himself is. Satanism (or worshipping Satan) is really settling for second best. Instead of worshipping the Creator and relying on Him for strength and the promise of salvation, Satanists worship the created and only a limited source of strength and no promise, in fact no possibility, of salvation.

It's pretty short when we think about all the Satanism intales, but I guess it's a start.

Before you can begin to understand what satan and satanism is about, you must completely forget the eternal battle between "heavan" and "hell". If you look at "satanism" within those parameteres of belief you will always come to a conclusion about it within them and always miss the mark.

"Satanism" was the word that Lavey called it, but it could be called just about anything- or nothing. The way I see it, Lavey called it "satanism" because it was a word that had so much impact in a society that gave a lot of weight to that word- since he lived in the western world where Judeo-Christian beliefs are common, this word was more useful to the promotion of his beliefs. Lavey was a showman, he knew how to let people fool themselves and use it for his gain but for those that may have read or understood a little of what he wrote- this is the very thing he urged people to look out for and fight against. Lavey generally let the media do his work for him, and if anyone was "outraged" well then so much the better, more publicity. Lavey wasn't the first or last of what could be considered "satanic" thinking, he was just better at packaging and promoting than most- but he wasn't the only one.

Satanism has nothing to do with the generally perceived western concept of a supernatural satan, it's just a word, maybe we should call it "adversaryism", which is literally what the word satan meant in the first place, and is very close to what it truly represents IMO. This "adversaryism" isn't just rebellion against everything just for the sake of it, that would be useless- this "adversaryism" is adversity to that which is entraps the mind, inhibits your full personal development, or otherwise makes you miserable for no other reason than someone else said it should be that way, this often puts one at odds with most of society because basically, most of society is made up of followers. Take what is useful or is seen as wisdom from anything and throw the useless parts out- I personally feel that there is some good useful wisdom in the bible (Proverbs is my favorite) Proverbs 14:15 "The simple believe every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going" that doesn't mean that I believe in the God of the bible, or buddhism, etc. etc. but all have something useful. Being honest, I am sure there are a number of people that would agree with some of the things Lavey said- just take out the Satan for those that see it as a barrier to agreement. Adversarism isn't restricted simply to religious matters, it could be political, social etc. but especially to the self- the constant questioning of even your own beliefs is just as important to a "satanist' as is questioning the rest of the worlds, if we didn't question, nothing would ever change. but then there are things that never change.- My opinion anyway

Sorry to barge into the conversation like this and uh, not to sound weird and all but has anyone asked um, any of the "Fallen" for their side of the story?
(I'm so sorry, I feel like a total idiot asking it but you know, curiosity and all....)

huajiro said:

I understand your attitude toward Christianity completely. I just don't understand exactly what a Satanist could believe in. If you are not for evil, mayhem, violence, sin.....you would be as much of a hypocrate as many of the Christians you are talking about.

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The idea that a Satanist should favor any and all "mayhem" doesn't really square with even the Christian view of Satan, let alone most theistic Satanists' view of Satan. Please see my articles Satan and "Evil" in Christianity (and Satanism) and Why "Satanic ritual crime" doesn't make sense even from a Christian point of view.

huajiro said:

What exactly does a Satanist stand for?

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Different kinds of Satanists "stand for" somewhat different things. In general the kinds of things that Satanists typically "stand for" include individualism and skepticism toward various popular beliefs.

xander- said:

There are many types of satanism, the most common would be the sterotypical; worshipper of the devil. In this belif, you dont belive in mayhem and violence. But you do belive in spirits of evil, of the anti-christ and sex. This belif would be relativly new, but you can still see the resemblance.

There is also the ancient, and that dates back all the way to the god set of anciet Egypt. This belives in personal gain, murder for personal gain and, above all, that:
From Anton Zsander LaVej: The one on the highest pyramid of skulls can see the furthest

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Can you cite a source for this purported quote from Anton LaVey? I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing such a statement in any of LaVey's works. Anyhow, the vast majority of Satanists do NOT advocate murder.

Also, exactly what group or tradition are you referring to that "dates all the way to the god Set of ancient Egypt"? As far as I am aware, no Satanist group today can trace a direct historical link to anything ancient, although many of today's Satanists do use ideas from ancient sources.

If anyone is interested, the following site deals very much with the above question; http://www.theistic-satanism.org/Muse/XianSatanEvil.html

Zionic86 said:

Quote " We should have someplace to go to be lustful about satan... "

My opinion: If he let u go to his lustfull place, he would say HAHA tricked you and end ur existence completely because he is the virus of existence. Agreeing with satan is agreeing with the opposer of the master of all that can ever be mastered. To test to see if your worthy of eternal life with himself and everyone else worthy, he allows his opposer to live among you, here on earth. to see how you react. Think bout what ur doing and where you are before you start saying you want to molest orgy with satan. You dont know satan, if he ever wanted u to molest orgy with himself he'd give you the signs to do so since hes powerful enough. But satan is just a metephorical virus to a cell. And the thing that created the virus is metephorically the nucleus of existence, the nucleus of existence can destroy the virus anytime it wants. Things have to be setup by a nucleus, not random nothingness that just so happenned to work .

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Well, obviously, theistic Satanists don't agree with your theology. For starters, most of us don't regard the Christian god as the true cosmic God.

painted wolf said:

and the essance of Satanism is the smug cocky reply... 8)

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That would seem to be the essence of Church of Satan style Satanism, judging by some of their online forums, at least. However, if you look around on the net, you'll find Satanists with a wide variety of attitudes and manners, as well as a variety of beliefs.

the simple answer to the question of "who is satan?" satan is the great deciever. who wants to be decieved? its just simply not part of human nature to want that.

skeeterboots said:

the simple answer to the question of "who is satan?" satan is the great deciever. who wants to be decieved? its just simply not part of human nature to want that.

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Thats not a simple answer, since it's only an opinion held by some. Satanists have a different opinion, one they believe to be accurate.

Master Vigil ,we do have a diferent opinion indeed . Skeeterboots ,if Satan is great deciever , then what is God? And don`t tell me he is the truth , because I heard that before . What you know about Satan anyway? The only thing you know is from the christian bible , but what else do you know . Let me tell you : nothing .

why would you think that's all i know? thats a ridiculous attitude in referring to someone you know nothing about. i have a PHD in world religion FYI and i am a professor at a university. what are your credentials? lets hear a short term version of why you consider yourself a "satanist" Era? is "Satan" all you know about?

Well you are answering me with another question , when you`ll give an answer I will give you my answer too . And please stop being so defensiv , I don`t care what you are , what exactly do you teach at university , do you teach satanism ? Maybe I`ll learn something from you , if you don`t teach satanism , not living in any satanic comunity , I will apreciate if you will keep you wisdom for someone else . Oh , by the way I do know a lot of things , ok ? You see this is why for us is so hard to have a comunication with christians , you allways talk with no sense . And please read what is said above" Who is Satan?" If you desire for us to speak about someone else , beside Satan , just say so , but not on this topic .