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Is the political system practiced in China from 1949 till now democratic or dictorial or what?

mcteethinator

mcteethinator

Idiosyncratic Muslim
greatcalgarian said:
Corrupt KMT Chinese government or corrupt Communist Chinese government?

Could you show evidence that which govnerment is considered to be corrupted? Did the US accuse Communist or the KMT government as a corrupt government?
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The KMT were definitely evil at the time, but Taiwan is a way better country than the PRC nowadays. More than one legal political party, they actually admit they're capitalist pigs while China seems found of calling itself a "People's Republic" when it never has been one, etc.

China is the bad aspects of Marxist-Leninist-type Communism (No democracy, censorship, etc) combined wih the bad aspects of capitalism (Inequality, poverty, people being paid a $1 an hour, etc).
 
greatcalgarian

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
mcteethinator said:
China is the bad aspects of Marxist-Leninist-type Communism (No democracy, censorship, etc) combined wih the bad aspects of capitalism (Inequality, poverty, people being paid a $1 an hour, etc).
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According to your description, current Chinese government is not a communist government at all.:p
 
Cynic

Cynic

Well-Known Member
They're still communist, their political system bears little resemblance to a democracy (for example, they implement a rule of men, instead of rule of law). Their government has implemented many reforms, but the lack of intrusion and regulation in the past probably has more to do with the weakening of the CCP because of poor political infrastructure, corruption, etc.
 
Mathematician

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
Since when have names been an indication of what is and what isn't? In that case, The Democratic People's Republic of North Korea must be our political equal. :confused:
 
mcteethinator

mcteethinator

Idiosyncratic Muslim
Cynic said:
They're still communist, their political system bears little resemblance to a democracy (for example, they implement a rule of men, instead of rule of law). Their government has implemented many reforms, but the lack of intrusion and regulation in the past probably has more to do with the weakening of the CCP because of poor political infrastructure, corruption, etc.
Click to expand...

Economically they aren't communist. They're capitalist.

And that is what I mean. China is what is wrong with communism (Or as I would say, Stalinism) and what is wrong with capitalism. Rather then what is right with capitalist and what is right with communism. Therefore, they're double the suck.

For example, the National Socialist Worker's Party of Germany was hardly a socialist worker's party. Meanings are often blurred.
 
greatcalgarian

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Perhaps, we should say communist party of China is practicing Socialist type of governing, together with some form of guided democracy or guided dictatorial ruling depending on which side you are looking at?
 
greatcalgarian

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
mcteethinator said:
Economically they aren't communist. They're capitalist.

And that is what I mean. China is what is wrong with communism (Or as I would say, Stalinism) and what is wrong with capitalism. Rather then what is right with capitalist and what is right with communism. Therefore, they're double the suck.

For example, the National Socialist Worker's Party of Germany was hardly a socialist worker's party. Meanings are often blurred.
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Are you saying that the CPC has been practicing capitalist economy since they took power in 1949? Or are you saying that they started practicing capitalist economy since they adopted the open policy, and accept investment from the Western capitalists?:confused:
 
Mathematician

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
Mao Tse Dong was a great military strategist, but that could be said of anyone regardless whether we view them as "evil" or "bad." His policies were Agrarian. There wasn't even a working class in China at the time of '49, so he decided to "edit" some of what Lenin and Marx said. :sarcastic Communism does not exist in the same way capitalism did not exist until the period of Mercantilism. Socialism can not be possible without democracy and work autonomy. All of the 19th century thinkers from Engels to Marx to Bakunin stressed that point. Socialism is quite literally "the doctrine which would not give up any of the principles of Liberty, Equality, Fraternity." Even Lenin didn't oppose democracy, but he also had to deal with both the Russian Revolution and the Russian Civil War.



If you want to see a glimpse of what real communism is, observe the internet. Youtube, Wikipedia, "illegal" filesharing, freeware, Linux, bartering, shareware... Heck, up until Gates introduced capitalism into the software market, the backbone of the internet and computers was the free exchange of ideas without profit motive.
 
mcteethinator

mcteethinator

Idiosyncratic Muslim
greatcalgarian said:
Are you saying that the CPC has been practicing capitalist economy since they took power in 1949? Or are you saying that they started practicing capitalist economy since they adopted the open policy, and accept investment from the Western capitalists?:confused:
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Since the 1976 reforms by Deng Xiapeng.

But then again, Mao just sucked when it came to being a ruler. His military strategy is cool though.
 
Cynic

Cynic

Well-Known Member
GeneCosta said:
Since when have names been an indication of what is and what isn't? In that case, The Democratic People's Republic of North Korea must be our political equal. :confused:
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Is the United States a feudal monarchy. :confused:

Its obviously deception, but are you saying that "Communist Party of China" does not reflect China's current or past political ideology?

mcteethinator said:
Economically they aren't communist. They're capitalist.

And that is what I mean. China is what is wrong with communism (Or as I would say, Stalinism) and what is wrong with capitalism. Rather then what is right with capitalist and what is right with communism. Therefore, they're double the suck.
Click to expand...

I would agree, they are a party that has been in the pursuit of economic productivity. However aspects of communist political structure continues to linger, even in the face of numerous reforms. There were a set of reforms in the early 1980’s however this did not stop them from massacring hundreds protesters in Tianamen square in the year of 1989. Imagine the "People’s Liberation Army," massacring their own people in suppression. Reforms do not necessarily stop them from violating human rights nor undermine democracy.

mcteethinator said:
For example, the National Socialist Worker's Party of Germany was hardly a socialist worker's party. Meanings are often blurred.
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National Socialist ideology borderlines fascism. It is distinct from socialism.
 
Mathematician

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
Its obviously deception, but are you saying that "Communist Party of China" does not reflect China's current or past political ideology?
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It's certainly not evident in what they've done from the Chinese Civil War to present day.
 
greatcalgarian

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Cynic said:
Is the United States a feudal monarchy. :confused:

Its obviously deception, but are you saying that "Communist Party of China" does not reflect China's current or past political ideology?



I would agree, they are a party that has been in the pursuit of economic productivity. However aspects of communist political structure continues to linger, even in the face of numerous reforms. There were a set of reforms in the early 1980’s however this did not stop them from massacring hundreds protesters in Tianamen square in the year of 1989. Imagine the "People’s Liberation Army," massacring their own people in suppression. Reforms do not necessarily stop them from violating human rights nor undermine democracy.

National Socialist ideology borderlines fascism. It is distinct from socialism.
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Massacring of Tiananmen is not directly a consequence of suppression. It was two political forces within the communist party struggling for power that gave rise to that incident, of course, the west would like to put everything to be uprising against tyranny, people wanted democracy etc. The 'democracy' in China may be different from the 'democracy' you understand by the west. There is, also limited amount of democracy in the west, where the public opinion is controlled by the mass media, through indoctrination, disinformation, threat etc without you realizing it.
 
V

vandervalley

Active Member
How is praising a communist government for getting rid of theocracy and slavery and fuedalism "Islamic thinking"?
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Then maybe you should also support USA in getting rid of Saddam and the Talibans since Americans are getting rid of theocracy and slavery in those 2 countries deeply inbedded with your "islamic thinking"

What are you getting at? I don't believe in sharia being enforced, secular government for the win. It's almost like saying you support Buddhist theocracy because you're a Bu--oh wait
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Actually what are you geting at? You praised communists to suppress the religious freedom and other human rights in Tibet. Maybe you should also praise and support Americans in getting rid of the 2 islamic theocratic governments in the middle east.
 
mcteethinator

mcteethinator

Idiosyncratic Muslim
vandervalley said:
Then maybe you should also support USA in getting rid of Saddam and the Talibans since Americans are getting rid of theocracy and slavery in those 2 countries deeply inbedded with your "islamic thinking"
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Saddam had a secular government and I do praise America for getting rid of the Taliban. Try again.

vandervalley said:
Actually what are you geting at? You praised communists to suppress the religious freedom and other human rights in Tibet. Maybe you should also praise and support Americans in getting rid of the 2 islamic theocratic governments in the middle east.
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Tibet had less human rights before the communist government, which says a lot considering Mao.
 
V

vandervalley

Active Member
[/quote]Saddam had a secular government and I do praise America for getting rid of the Taliban. Try again.
Saddam's secular and dictatorial government did a lot more harm to the ordinary people than Tibet's govenment before the communists.

If you praised communist government for getting"rid of" the former Tibetan government then shouldn't you also praise USA in getting rid of Saddam?

Tibet had less human rights before the communist government, which says a lot considering Mao.
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Please provide evidence that show the former Tibetan government respected less human rights than the communist government now.
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V

vandervalley

Active Member
Originally Posted by greatcalgarian: Corrupt KMT Chinese government or corrupt Communist Chinese government?

Could you show evidence that which govnerment is considered to be corrupted? Did the US accuse Communist or the KMT government as a corrupt government?
Click to expand...

well there is a huge difference in terms of the degree of corruption between the chinese goernment and the taiwanese government; for example it's hard to prosecute and punish a high ranking chinese offical if he/she is found to be corrupt; however in taiwan even the president's son-in-law is not above the law and got sent to jail when found to be corrupt
 
mcteethinator

mcteethinator

Idiosyncratic Muslim
Saddam's secular and dictatorial government did a lot more harm to the ordinary people than Tibet's govenment before the communists.
Click to expand...

Did you read any of the links I sent you at all?

If you praised communist government for getting"rid of" the former Tibetan government then shouldn't you also praise USA in getting rid of Saddam?
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One was a fuedalistic theocracy with serfdom and slavery with a life expectancy of 42. The other was a dictatorial secular capitalist government. It's like comparing modern-day America to the dark ages.

Please provide evidence that show the former Tibetan government respected less human rights than the communist government now.
Click to expand...

Did you read any of the links I sent you at all?

Last time I checked, the entire systems of fuedalism, slavery and serfdom THEMSELVES are a human rights abuse.
 
A

anders

Well-Known Member
LongGe123 said:
china's current state is a necessary one - many chinese will acknowledge that the system is far from perfect, but it is serving the country very well actually. Western media just love to pounce on anything bad that happens and turn into a reflection of the entire nation - it's such nonsense. People bang on about China's human rights record over the past 50 or so years and say how bad it has been, comparing it with our lovely ever-improving western record - well, if we stretch that window a bit to say the past 200 years, us westerners aren't looking in too good shape there are we? I mean, americans driving the natives off their land, keeping slaves, Britain trading in slaves, colonising anyone we wanted to, killing protesters and the like...sound familiar? China needs time to change, we can't force them to, and for now it is a necessary state. a population of 1.3 billion people (officially, in fact it is probably nearer 1.5/1.6) requires an absolutely solid system of government - China would descend into anarchy without the current system - very bad!
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Too tired to re-create my post that disappeared, I summarize myself, basically aggreeing with LongGe: Extraneous powers, like Japan, Germany, Britain, have severly exploited China. Lacking financial etc. strength, positive (but who's the judge?) changes in China were made difficult. Today's China isn't ideal from today's westerners' points of view. Europe a few generations away wasn't either.
 
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