1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
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Errors in Bible translations...
- Thread starter t3gah
- Start date
linwood
Well-Known Member
How did the serpent lie?
If read in context I see no lie.
The fact that God expelled Adam & Eve from the garden to keep them from eating of the tree of life tells me that they did not have immortality to begin with.
So they were already slated to die sooner or later.
How did the serpent lie?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
"You will not surely die" is a HUGE lie. It purposely misrepresented a spiritual death as a physical one, and many buy into the the same scam today.
Spiritual death is being seperated from your creator. Nothing could be more horrible than that.
Spiritual death is being seperated from your creator. Nothing could be more horrible than that.
linwood
Well-Known Member
What scripture supports this viewpoint?NetDoc said:
If what you say is true how dio you know the serpent was speaking of "spiritual" death and not material death as Genesis would seem to indicate?
I see no reason to believe the serpent was speaking of this spiritual death.
Are you saying Adam and Eve were denied access to heaven?
That they went on into oblivion?
Hi Everyone
FIRST, I had not been informed that this thread was reopened and it is interesting to read what has been posted since as I have said before on another thread,
In other words, I am interested only in peaceful Bible discussions and NOT in ego boosting debates which I view as senseless and without any redeeming features. This was clearly seen in the presidential debates of a few months pass where each candidate was NOT interested in fact and truth, but in advancing his egotistical cause; whereas, in discussion, both hopefully will learn something beneficial or at least one will.
SECOND, I notice that I have been accused of calling someone stupid, but the only time I remember using this word was NOT in relation to a person at all, I used it as follows,
And I still hold to this, if a researcher does not believe the findings of his/her own research this would be prima fascia ridicules, or a person who lacked confidence due to being a very bad researcher.
THIRD, One poster said,
Then all went into debate mode until someone used a little reasoning and said,
It seems like some get hung up because different Bibles use different wording and forget to pay attention to substance. All should remember that the quality of any Bible translation, or for that matter the translation of anything, depends not on the exact words the translator uses in English, but on how well the translator captures the meaning and understanding that the original writer had in writing in his/her own language. Let's face it Koine Greek uses a very different grammatical forum than English and has different verbal tenses than does English and different idiomatic forms than does English. If the translator accurately captures the meaning the original writer had in mind, it is a good translation whether it uses the same words or different words from another translation and this without exception. Reading Genesis 2:16-17 & 3:1-5 in the American Standard Version, "And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." & "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat: 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil." (American Standard Version; ASV) clearly shows God (YHWH) told them if they ate of a certain tree they would die, and the Devil, the serpent in this case, told them otherwise, and today I can nowhere find either Adam or Eve. Obviously, Satan told the first lie and the translator clearly accurately in substance apparently captured the meaning and understanding of the original writer, a good translational job.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
FIRST, I had not been informed that this thread was reopened and it is interesting to read what has been posted since as I have said before on another thread,
In other words, I am interested only in peaceful Bible discussions and NOT in ego boosting debates which I view as senseless and without any redeeming features. This was clearly seen in the presidential debates of a few months pass where each candidate was NOT interested in fact and truth, but in advancing his egotistical cause; whereas, in discussion, both hopefully will learn something beneficial or at least one will.
SECOND, I notice that I have been accused of calling someone stupid, but the only time I remember using this word was NOT in relation to a person at all, I used it as follows,
And I still hold to this, if a researcher does not believe the findings of his/her own research this would be prima fascia ridicules, or a person who lacked confidence due to being a very bad researcher.
THIRD, One poster said,
Then all went into debate mode until someone used a little reasoning and said,
It seems like some get hung up because different Bibles use different wording and forget to pay attention to substance. All should remember that the quality of any Bible translation, or for that matter the translation of anything, depends not on the exact words the translator uses in English, but on how well the translator captures the meaning and understanding that the original writer had in writing in his/her own language. Let's face it Koine Greek uses a very different grammatical forum than English and has different verbal tenses than does English and different idiomatic forms than does English. If the translator accurately captures the meaning the original writer had in mind, it is a good translation whether it uses the same words or different words from another translation and this without exception. Reading Genesis 2:16-17 & 3:1-5 in the American Standard Version, "And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." & "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which Jehovah God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat: 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil." (American Standard Version; ASV) clearly shows God (YHWH) told them if they ate of a certain tree they would die, and the Devil, the serpent in this case, told them otherwise, and today I can nowhere find either Adam or Eve. Obviously, Satan told the first lie and the translator clearly accurately in substance apparently captured the meaning and understanding of the original writer, a good translational job.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I am saying that Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden where God lived. They were kicked out of God's house.
Ezekial 18:4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
Ezekial 18:4 For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Soul dies=Spiritual Death.
Not sure I can make it any plainer than that!
Do you believe that the soul never dies?
BTW, did Adam and Eve's transgressions cause them to DIE right then? No. It caused them to be seperated.
Not sure I can make it any plainer than that!
Do you believe that the soul never dies?
BTW, did Adam and Eve's transgressions cause them to DIE right then? No. It caused them to be seperated.
linwood
Well-Known Member
I understannd your personal belief about the scripture in question Doc and I can respect it but it is a matter of what TVOR would call "revealed faith" for you.NetDoc said:
I like he am not capable of revealed faith and must have some evidence for anything I hold a belief in.
I don`t require absolute proof, just a reason to believe..any valid reason.
I don`t see any reason in Genesis to believe the serpent lied.
In fact God told them...
Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
He told them they would die that day, the same day they ate it.
This didn`t happen.
It would seem to me that God lied and the serpent is the only honest character in this whole tale.
I don`t think we view the concept of a soul in the same manner Doc
To me a "soul" is simply the compilation of ones thoughts, emotions, ethics and reactions to the emotional aspects within it.
Thats my point, they didn`t die for almost a millenia.
The serpent said "You will surely not die" and they didn`t.
God said you will die the day you eat it and they didn`t.
Who is the liar here?
I don`t see the serpents lie.
Hi Linwood
You said,
You said,
I would like to comment on the last part first. They did die in that same day if you understand the fact that the ancient Hebrew word translated 'day' in English had a different meaning than the English word 'day'; it actually meant a period of time. The International Encyclopedia of the Bible says the following on this:
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
i just wanted to add that a good friend of mine, who is Jewish by race and by faith, took a pilgrimage to Israel. He was shown an old Hebrew text of the Torah (the first five books of the Bible) by an old Rabbi. He called me immediatly upon reading it, for he had to tell someone that the proper english translation is not "good" and "Evil" it is "Ripe" and "Unripe"
This single flaw alters the entire book so completely, i feel a new, more accurate translation would be welcomed.
This single flaw alters the entire book so completely, i feel a new, more accurate translation would be welcomed.
For over two millenia every scrap of Biblical manuscript has been poured over by a near endless stream of experts - and you know a Jew who met an old Rabbi who has an old Torah and a new translation, presumably rendering Genesis 3:4-5 asanami said:
3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman: 'Ye shall not surely die;
3:5 for G-d doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as G-d, knowing Ripe and Unripe.'
I applaud your boundless gullibility.3:5 for G-d doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as G-d, knowing Ripe and Unripe.'
I am many things including, perhaps, idiosyncratic, but I am far from cynical. This is particularly true when it comes to the Torah/Tanach. I have five variants on my bookshelf and more bookmarked precisely because I find it to be a remarkable, intriguing, and oft times inspiring anthology.michel said:As I do your idiosyncratic cynicism!!!( Although I agree with you this time )
EnhancedSpirit
High Priestess
I have found several different mis-translations of the KJV. I have posted some of these around other threads. But since this thread has been reopened I thought I would add one to it. It's a rather simple little statement I'm sure you all know:
The meek shall inherit the earth.
Where the word 'inherit' is used in other parts of the bible, it means the same as the English word inherit:to recieve from relatives or forefathers.
But not in this verse. In this verse, the word 'inherit' is translated from a word that means: rise up and take by force.
The meek shall inherit the earth.
Where the word 'inherit' is used in other parts of the bible, it means the same as the English word inherit:to recieve from relatives or forefathers.
But not in this verse. In this verse, the word 'inherit' is translated from a word that means: rise up and take by force.
