Isis-Astoroth
Member
A person is made up of the corporeal, the spirit, and the soul. The spirit being the conciousness, the mind, the astral body, and the soul being that which we take to the next life. That's my thoughts anyway.
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How do you define the self?
- Thread starter standing_on_one_foot
- Start date
I believe in no soul or anything like it. Engyo and M. Vigil have explained the Buddhist and Daoist views, which rather coincide with mine.
The "divine spark" thing is an expression I associate with Gnosticism (or, perhaps better, Gnosticisms).
Anattâ is indeed the Pali form of Sanskrit Anatman, "not-I", the absence of a permanent and unchanging self or soul. The anatta doctrine attempts to encourage the Buddhist practitioner to detach him/herself from this misplaced clinging to what is mistakenly regarded as his or her Self.
The "divine spark" thing is an expression I associate with Gnosticism (or, perhaps better, Gnosticisms).
Anattâ is indeed the Pali form of Sanskrit Anatman, "not-I", the absence of a permanent and unchanging self or soul. The anatta doctrine attempts to encourage the Buddhist practitioner to detach him/herself from this misplaced clinging to what is mistakenly regarded as his or her Self.
Anatta in Japanese is muga, 無我; wuwo (not-I) in Chinese. Several sites, like http://travel.mysic.org/Buddhist_terms_and_concepts, have lists of Buddhist terminology.
seraphimfire
Member
I must agree somewhat with MV. The self is the personality, mind, will, emotions and of course intelect.
The "church" has always confused the soul with the spirit. The human being is composed of spirit first, we are spirits! We have a soul or self and we live in these bodies that will die one day and decompose leaving only our spirit and the essense of soul. This is the teachings of the Bible, that we must have a spiritual body made by our relationship with God/Jesus Christ and we will not be without a body after death. This is open to much understanding in the whole process that all mankind will go through in the future ages.
I don't have much time to elaborate and it is not to ethical for me to do so. Carl Jung has written much on the "self" and the problems thereof! I don't agree with him 100% but not much has breen written deeply on the subject so I thought of him first after the Bible.
Seraph
The "church" has always confused the soul with the spirit. The human being is composed of spirit first, we are spirits! We have a soul or self and we live in these bodies that will die one day and decompose leaving only our spirit and the essense of soul. This is the teachings of the Bible, that we must have a spiritual body made by our relationship with God/Jesus Christ and we will not be without a body after death. This is open to much understanding in the whole process that all mankind will go through in the future ages.
I don't have much time to elaborate and it is not to ethical for me to do so. Carl Jung has written much on the "self" and the problems thereof! I don't agree with him 100% but not much has breen written deeply on the subject so I thought of him first after the Bible.
Seraph
I would personally define the 'self' as 'the spirit' (maybe we over complicate things by using too many words?); the spirit is an intangible source of nature that merely 'uses' bodies in each incarnation, until the spirit reaches enlightenment, and a oneness with God.
What a pity we very rarely (there have been cases where people claim to do so) have a connection from the spirit's memory to the mind; I suppose that would be too easy!!
What a pity we very rarely (there have been cases where people claim to do so) have a connection from the spirit's memory to the mind; I suppose that would be too easy!!
sondadareas
Member
Hi to all!
I would define the self as that dynamic entity that continuously creates the ongoing NOW out of the electric pulses which are themselves generated within the brain! These neuronic pulses can be assumed to be triggered by the outside world, OW! (I would like everyone to consider how the desktop PC interacts with the OW!)
The truth is, we only have NOW! For example, we can only worry about the past, now. And we can only think of the future now! Indeed, the science of meditation shows us that the tendency of the mind is to spend the present to think about the past or future.
Now, the NOW. 1st, the PC doesn't have NOW! It's the awareness of events in the immediate past. Example....
I hear the note A for a fraction of a second, then it's gone. I hear the 2nd note, B, WHILE the 1st note is still in my awareness, despite that that I can't hear it. This means my hearing of the 2nd note is integrated with the 1st. Then the 2nd note is gone too, & the 3rd note, C, comes in. Yet, the previous notes are still in my awareness, though I can't hear them! So, the 3rd note is heard too in relation with the past 2 notes.
This is how we hear music! Though the past is gone yet we are aware of it, & the present sensations are always 'integrated' ( I can't find the right word!) with the immediate past.
Is this the 'eternal present' of the mystics? I wouldn;t be surprise if it is.
peace,
sondadareas
I would define the self as that dynamic entity that continuously creates the ongoing NOW out of the electric pulses which are themselves generated within the brain! These neuronic pulses can be assumed to be triggered by the outside world, OW! (I would like everyone to consider how the desktop PC interacts with the OW!)
The truth is, we only have NOW! For example, we can only worry about the past, now. And we can only think of the future now! Indeed, the science of meditation shows us that the tendency of the mind is to spend the present to think about the past or future.
Now, the NOW. 1st, the PC doesn't have NOW! It's the awareness of events in the immediate past. Example....
I hear the note A for a fraction of a second, then it's gone. I hear the 2nd note, B, WHILE the 1st note is still in my awareness, despite that that I can't hear it. This means my hearing of the 2nd note is integrated with the 1st. Then the 2nd note is gone too, & the 3rd note, C, comes in. Yet, the previous notes are still in my awareness, though I can't hear them! So, the 3rd note is heard too in relation with the past 2 notes.
This is how we hear music! Though the past is gone yet we are aware of it, & the present sensations are always 'integrated' ( I can't find the right word!) with the immediate past.
Is this the 'eternal present' of the mystics? I wouldn;t be surprise if it is.
peace,
sondadareas
I'm not very keen on analogies with P.C's - although I must admit that I have used them in the past. The human 'mechanism' is so incredible that I think that to compare it to a P.C is much like comparing a bicycle to a sports car! I can't ever see a human creating a mechanism that heals itself, that has true sentience, Morals...well, the list goes on ad infinitum.sondadareas said:
Part quote ......."This is how we hear music! Though the past is gone yet we are aware of it, & the present sensations are always 'integrated' ( I can't find the right word!) with the immediate past.
Is this the 'eternal present' of the mystics? I wouldn;t be surprise if it is.".......Part quote.
Having gone to the trouble to compare the mind to a P.C, I am surprise that you don't equate our memory to the memory of a P.C - perhaps with eprom, rom and ram - to me, our brains are very much like that. Trouble is, I'm fast running out of ram!!!:jiggy:
sondadareas
Member
Michel,
I think I'm beginning to understand! Humans, even the reductionists here in the forums don't like to be compared with the PC! My apology then, to both believers & reductionsts!
I am merely using the PC as THE example of how objects we see around us interacts with one another & more importanly, how an 'intelligent' entity like an animal, a human, or even a PC can even 'acquire knowledge' about the OW, 'outside world.' As I have repeatedly posted here in the forum, OW cannot even exist, from the point of view of the intelligence within the organism or PC! For the PC, binary patterns are merely being triggered within the body of the PC & nothing more. For organisms, on the other hand, neuronal pulses are generated within the body, assumed to be triggered by the OW. But here electric pulses are turned into sensations, unless we deny animals sensations!
In other words I AM TRYING TO AWAKEN OR RE-AWAKEN FROM YOU, BROTHERS & SISTERS, THIS MYSTERY OF EXISTENCE, OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS. I want you to realize that you yourSELF, with your body/mind, creates your own reality & this personal reality is THE REALITY!
peace ,
sondadareas
I think I'm beginning to understand! Humans, even the reductionists here in the forums don't like to be compared with the PC! My apology then, to both believers & reductionsts!
I am merely using the PC as THE example of how objects we see around us interacts with one another & more importanly, how an 'intelligent' entity like an animal, a human, or even a PC can even 'acquire knowledge' about the OW, 'outside world.' As I have repeatedly posted here in the forum, OW cannot even exist, from the point of view of the intelligence within the organism or PC! For the PC, binary patterns are merely being triggered within the body of the PC & nothing more. For organisms, on the other hand, neuronal pulses are generated within the body, assumed to be triggered by the OW. But here electric pulses are turned into sensations, unless we deny animals sensations!
In other words I AM TRYING TO AWAKEN OR RE-AWAKEN FROM YOU, BROTHERS & SISTERS, THIS MYSTERY OF EXISTENCE, OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS. I want you to realize that you yourSELF, with your body/mind, creates your own reality & this personal reality is THE REALITY!
peace ,
sondadareas
This is from the thread by DC85 because i got to it first.
It would be my answer here too.
At 42 or so days after conception the embryo gains 21 grams. Those cells divide and form to make a human who's nuronal firing and chemical releases are triggered by elecricity, pure jolt. at the moment of death the human loses 21 grams.
How much does a soul weigh?
watch twenty one grams exist in every cell of the body simultaniously, but only in life.
21 grams greates all of you mind body, imperfections. The desire to get "bombed" and who you are when you do.
You create your existance today, everyday and in your own life, in everyother, life you ever may have had or will have.
Make every life happy.
It would be my answer here too.
At 42 or so days after conception the embryo gains 21 grams. Those cells divide and form to make a human who's nuronal firing and chemical releases are triggered by elecricity, pure jolt. at the moment of death the human loses 21 grams.
How much does a soul weigh?
watch twenty one grams exist in every cell of the body simultaniously, but only in life.
21 grams greates all of you mind body, imperfections. The desire to get "bombed" and who you are when you do.
You create your existance today, everyday and in your own life, in everyother, life you ever may have had or will have.
Make every life happy.
All that surrounds us is permeated by the cause and effect relation, meaning nothing is created without a purpose. In the world of physical bodies, there exist definite laws of motion, dynamics, and rotation. A similar logic exists in the plant and animal kingdom. But the primary question, i.e. for what purpose does all this exist, that is, not only ourselves but also the entire surrounding world surrounding us - still remains without an answer. Is there a person in the world who was never, at least once in his life, concerned with this question? The existing scientific theories maintain that the world is governed by invariable physical laws, which we are unable to affect. Our sole purpose consists in wisely utilizing those laws to live out, well some 70 to 120 years of our life, preparing the ground, both literally and figuratively, for future generations. But for the sake of what? "Did humanity develop by way of evolution of the simplest forms", or "was life brought from other planets"?
www.kabbalah.info
www.kabbalah.info
The soul's/self's perception varies with one's state of consciousness. In ordinary 3rd state we perceive ourselves as discreet individuals, separate from all other objects and beings.
In higher states we begin to perceive ourselves and others as a single consciousness, a single undifferentiated entity.
As we progress through higher levels of consciousness our illusions of individuality drop away as we merge with the Single Universal Soul.
In higher states we begin to perceive ourselves and others as a single consciousness, a single undifferentiated entity.
As we progress through higher levels of consciousness our illusions of individuality drop away as we merge with the Single Universal Soul.
Namaste, Victor.
The 1st three states are familiar to everyone. Deep(dreamless) sleep, REM (dreaming) sleep and ordinary waking-state.
It is the goal of Eastern religions to continue the process and "wake up" from this third state as well. The techniques for accomplishing this are myriad -- many sorts of meditative, devotional, or rational practices. The various Eastern sects may, in fact, be differentiated more by their preferred method of achieving consciousness jumps than by their actual theological traditions.
The 1st three states are familiar to everyone. Deep(dreamless) sleep, REM (dreaming) sleep and ordinary waking-state.
It is the goal of Eastern religions to continue the process and "wake up" from this third state as well. The techniques for accomplishing this are myriad -- many sorts of meditative, devotional, or rational practices. The various Eastern sects may, in fact, be differentiated more by their preferred method of achieving consciousness jumps than by their actual theological traditions.
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Thanks Seyorni. What does Namaste mean?Seyorni said:
If I am understanding correctly it almost sounds like the eastern sects are attempting to realize that in reality they are god or is it only part of god? Do they believe god is a nature of his/her own? I'm very curious. Sorry if I have gone off topic. Can you direct me to another thread of perhaps start one in the proper area so we may discuss this.
Peace
~Victor
Sorry Victor. Namaste (na-ma-stay) or Namaskar is the customary greeting in most of India. It is a salute from one soul to another. You'll find several posters using it here.
Your assessment of the implications of my explanation are correct. But the Eastern concept of God/Reality is very different from the JudeoChristianIslamic sense of the word. Hinduism/Buddhism, from a Western perspective, are more like systems of psychotherapy than theological faiths. There is no salvation, there is awakening.
This world we live in is a simulation. Have you seen The Matrix? -- it's like that. Reality, as we perceive it in 3rd state, is not physically possible. We are dreaming it, as surely as we dream fantastical realities while we sleep. Our 2nd state dreams are real -- subjectively; so are our waking-state dreams/realities. They are not objectively real, though. The goal of the eastern religions is Enlightenment -- the waking up to/ direct perception of -- objective reality -- the single, unique, living, Consciousness. Our 3rd state perception of diversity is entirely illusory, a dream. We are part of/the entirety of, Universal Consciousness. We have only to realize it.
We are dreaming this world. Wake up!
Your assessment of the implications of my explanation are correct. But the Eastern concept of God/Reality is very different from the JudeoChristianIslamic sense of the word. Hinduism/Buddhism, from a Western perspective, are more like systems of psychotherapy than theological faiths. There is no salvation, there is awakening.
This world we live in is a simulation. Have you seen The Matrix? -- it's like that. Reality, as we perceive it in 3rd state, is not physically possible. We are dreaming it, as surely as we dream fantastical realities while we sleep. Our 2nd state dreams are real -- subjectively; so are our waking-state dreams/realities. They are not objectively real, though. The goal of the eastern religions is Enlightenment -- the waking up to/ direct perception of -- objective reality -- the single, unique, living, Consciousness. Our 3rd state perception of diversity is entirely illusory, a dream. We are part of/the entirety of, Universal Consciousness. We have only to realize it.
We are dreaming this world. Wake up!
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Oh ok. In that case...saludos...a simple hello in spanish.Seyorni said:
Awakening...hmm...interesting.
Ah Matrix..one of my fovorite movies. It's interesting that you would use this as analogy to explain the Eastern view on awakening. I am a Cathecist and have used the Matrix as analogy to explain conversion of the heart, which equates to an awakening I suppose. I have many questions but this may not be the best place for it. Which area should I start a thread? So you and others can answer my question?
The Least
~Victor