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Is Bible Prophesy realible?

Is Bible Prophesy really reliable?

  • yes, Bible Prophesy is reliable

    Votes: 20 39.2%
  • no, Bible Prophesy is not reliable

    Votes: 30 58.8%
  • don't know

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Total voters
    51

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Ezekiel chapt.26 predicted that the city of Tyre would be destroyed by Babylon during the reign of Nebuchadrez'zer.

Didn't happen. In fact, Tyre's still there today.
From A PROBLEM OF UNFULFILLED PROPHECY IN EZEKIEL: THE DESTRUCTION OF TYRE (EZEKIEL 26:1-14 and 29:18-20):

"Not all interpreters have concurred in the judgment that Ezekiel saw only Nebuchadnezzar as God's agent of destruction for Tyre. Adam Clarke, for example, reasoning from what he knew of the subsequent history of Tyre, felt the prediction in 26:4 that Tyre would become a bare rock, its dust swept into the sea, could not "refer to the capture of Tyre by Nebuchadnezzar. It flourished long after his time." Then treating verses 12-14, he expressed "doubt whether the whole of this prophecy does not refer to the taking of Tyre by Alexander, three hundred years after its capture by Nebuchadnezzar. Indeed it may include more recent conquests of this important city."22 The prophecy referred to Nebuchadnezzar's destruction of the mainland city and Alexander's conquest of the island, with the "many nations" of 26:3 encompassing invaders through the sixteenth century of the Christian era, 23 he thought.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
But we do know the set of napoleon II's mind concerning the prophecy. He dashed the letter to the ground and announced: "If this man is a god, I am TWO gods."

Anyway, this might help put things in historical perspective:
"This is a very skeletal timeline covering, in general, only 1844-1871 highlighting the rise of the nation states. The Promised Day Is Come gives a full account of what befell each of the recipients of Bahá'u'lláh's messages.

1844 The Báb declares His Mission
Napoleon III writes 'The Extinction of Poverty'
1846 Pius IX is elected pope because it is felt he is the liberal candidate
1848-49 Marx and Engles write "The Manifesto of the Communist Party"
Pius IX flees popular uprising in Rome; Roman Republic proclaimed
Constitutions are granted to the Italian States
Revolution in Paris; Second Republic is proclaimed
Uprising in Vienna; Hungary and Czech autonomy demanded
Uprising in Berlin; Frederick Wilhelm IV grants constitutions to German States
Hungary claims independence from Austria
Austria gains a Constitution
Serfs are freed in Austria
France suppresses the Roman Republic and restores Pius IX
1850 Prussian attempt to unify German States halted by Austrian treat of war;
Germanic Confederation established
Cavour, Prime Minister of Sardinia, promotes anti-clerical legislation
1852 Napoleon III names himself Emperor of France
1856 National Society created to work for Italian unity
1858 War with Austria secretly planned by Napoleon III and Cavour
1859 Peace of Villafranca between France and Austria
Between the 1860s and 1880s a number of societies of workers were formed to better conditions and increase their social/political power. Many of these societies acquired legal status between 1870 and 1900.
1860 Garibaldi invades Italy
1861 Proclamation of the Kingdom of Italy under Vittorio Emmanuele II
1861 Russian serfs freed
1862 Bismarck becomes first minister of Prussia
1863 Bahá'u'lláh declares His Mission
1864 Pius IX writes 'Syllabus of Errors'
1866 Austria defeated in Seven Weeks' War
1867 Marx writes "Das Kapital"
First women are admitted to the University of Zurich
New Parliament with limited powers for all Germany set up by the German States
Garibaldi's invasion of Papal States halted by papal and French forces
Austro-Hungarian Empire formed
1868 Bahá'u'lláh arrives in Holy Land
1869 Second Tablet to Napoleon III sent -- followed by Tablets to the
other Rulers
1870 Franco-Prussian War declared
Withdrawal of the French garrison from Rome allows Italian troops to enter the
city. After a plebiscite, Rome becomes capital of Italy
All German States unite to defeat France
1871 German Empire inaugurated at Versailles
Law of Guarantees defines relationship between Italy and the Papal States; income
and independence are assured the pope and extra territoriality granted the
Vatican State
Bahá'u'lláh's letters to the rulers came at a crucial time in this process. Clearly, the old order of the day was giving way to a new, more egalitarian structure. Bahá'u'lláh warns the rulers that they must be aware of their responsibilities before God. They must turn toward God and His Manifestation for guidance; otherwise, they will be swept away along with the outmoded traditions and systems they represent. On one level, He may have had some hope the monarchs would heed His call. Of those to whom He wrote, all but Wilhelm I had shown some signs of liberality of thought. Thumbnail sketches from encyclopedia accounts seem to indicate that these rulers were, to a certain extent, in tune with their time.
Pope Pius IX originally favored unification of the Italian States. He was elected pope because it was felt he was a liberal choice; however, continued threats to papal power caused him to become much more conservative. In 1864 he wrote "Syllabus of Errors" in which he condemned what he believed were errors of modern thought -- liberalism, rationalism, communism and socialism. By 1870 Italy had absorbed all the Papal States except the Vatican, the Lateran palaces and the papal villa at Castel Gandolfo. The pope shut himself inside the Vatican and considered himself a prisoner.
Napoleon III wrote "The Extinction of Poverty" in 1844; this treatise proposed the government act to end poverty and suffering. In 1848 he was elected President of France but instead of working to end suffering and poverty, he spent the next four years consolidating power. He named himself Emperor in 1852. He was a dictator surrounded by dishonest men. The legislature and the press had no power or authority. After 1860, in an attempt to increase his popularity and power, he began to move in the direction of a liberal empire, but by then people had begun to demand a democracy. His policy unraveled as he entered into a number of unfortunate political alliances, skirmishes, and deceitful dealings which led, finally, to his defeat in 1870 by the Germans. Two days after his surrender, the revolutionists overthrew the empire. He died an exile in England in 1873.
Alexander II was called the Czar liberator because he freed the Russian serfs in 1861. He also carried out judicial reforms, especially in the courts, and improved the financial administration. In addition, he ended censorship, permitted provincial representative assemblies, and promoted industrialization and railroad building. Alexander fought and defeated the Turks. Nevertheless, vigorous revolutionary leaders demanded further reforms and greater political and social power. In 1881 Alexander II was assassinated. He was followed by Alexander III who was much more autocratic and repressive.
Franz Joseph was a popular ruler but also believed in military force. After Austria was defeated in the Seven Week's War of 1866, he adopted a much more liberal attitude allowing Hungarians equal rights which eventually led to the formation of the Austro-Hungarian empire in 1867.
Victoria I was the most successful of the monarchs in that she saw the best interests of her subjects were the best interests of herself. When she became Queen, the English people had very little respect for the throne because the previous Kings had been profligate and unconcerned with the welfare of their subjects. Victoria proved to be hard-working and caring, but she realized her role was as a symbol of national tradition and pride. The real power in Britain, then as now, resided in the Parliament.
Wilhelm I opposed constitutional reform and supported the policies of his Prime Minister, Bismarck, who united Germany through ruthless political and military tactics. Bismarck once declared that the great problems of his time would be solved through "blood and iron" not speeches and resolutions. By virtue of their positions and power, the rulers addressed by Bahá'u'lláh could have implemented great changes among their people and promulgated God's Plan through the whole world. Had they been prepared to turn to Bahá'u'lláh, God's Messenger for this day, they would have learned at His feet how to build the future world civilization. They would have been part of the solution to man's lack of true spirituality and separation from God rather than encouragers of disunity and disintegration. When the Kitáb-i-Aqdás appeared, they would have welcomed the guidance as a means of bringing about a peaceful union of their countries, their colonies, and the world -- a means of creating the Kingdom of God on earth for which they had been taught to pray in 'The Lord's Prayer.' But they rejected the Lord of the Age and utterly misunderstood His Message, so mankind is still struggling toward its goal of unity. The rulers of Bahá'u'lláh's day preoccupied themselves with earthly power. They could not suppress their egos, selfish desires, and thirst for personal power. Like Esau in the Old Testament, they bartered away their inheritance for a cup of stew."
Historical Study: Tablets to the Rulers

The author is Melissa Tansik.

Regards,
Scott
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
Care to share some Bible prophecies for the next few months? We can figure out what they predict now, watch for the prophecied events to unfold (or not), then get back together afterward to evaluate how accurate they were.

If you're right, there'll be no question; you'll have quite a bit of hard evidence to back up your claims.

If a few months is the wrong length of time (are we in a "prophecy lull" right now? Is something supposed to happen next Tuesday?), then we can figure out a different time period that works for you.

Sound good? I'm ready when you are.

Lets start with the symbols of Prophecy, the "Code" so to speak
Luke 8 :10 And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.'
Animals and there Parts
Horse = Strength and Power in Battle Job 39:19, Psalms 147:10, Proverbs 21:31
• Dragon = Satan or his agency Isaiah 27:1;30:6, Psalm 74:13-14; Rev. 12:7-9; Ezekiel 29:3; Jeremiah 51:34
• Beast = Kingdom/government/political power Daniel 7:17, 23
• Lamb = Jesus/sacrifice John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:7
• Lion = Jesus/Powerful King i.e. Babylon Rev. 5:4-9, Jer. 50:43-44, Dan. 7:4,17,23
• Bear = Destructive Power / Medo Persia Proverbs 28:15, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Daniel 7:5
• Leopard = Greece Daniel 7:6
• Serpent = Satan Revelation 12:9; 20:2
• Tongue = Language / Speech Exodus 4:10
• Wolf = Disguised Enemies Matthew 7:15
• Dove = Holy Spirit Mark 1:10
• Ram = Medo Persia Daniel 8:20
• Goat = Greece Daniel 8:21
• Horn = King or kingdom Daniel 7:24; 8:5, 21, 22; Zechariah 1:18, 19; Revelation 17:12
• Wings = Speed / Protection / Deliverance Deuteronomy 28:49, Matthew 23:37
People and Body Parts
• Woman, Pure = True Church Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27
• Woman, Corrupt = Apostate church Ezk. 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4
• Thief = Suddenness of Jesus' coming 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4; 2 Peter 3:10
• Hand = Deeds / Works / Actions Ecclesiastes 9:10, Isaiah 59:6
• Forehead = Mind Deuteronomy 6:6-8, Romans 7:25; Ezekiel 3:8, 9
• Feet = Your Walk / Direction Genesis 19:2, Psalm 119:105
• Eyes = Spiritual Discernment Matthew 13:10-17, 1 John 2:11
• Skin = Christ's righteousness Exodus 12:5, 1 Peter 1:19, Isaiah 1:4-6
• Harlot = Apostate church/religion Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9
• Heads = Major powers/rulers/governments Revelation 17:3, 9, 10
 

may

Well-Known Member
I don't think Bible prophecy is reliable. But I'm 50 years old and have read in the history of religion -- I've seen the same things prophesied over and over without coming true.
And some of us see bible prophecy unfolding and revealing many things
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."Daniel 12;4
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
I you believe Bible Prophecy is reliable, then you have to believe the Book of Mormon is true, because the bible prophesies of the Book of Mormon.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I you believe Bible Prophecy is reliable, then you have to believe the Book of Mormon is true, because the bible prophesies of the Book of Mormon.
Dear me... You are sounding like some of our Muslim brethren trying to stretch the scriptures to say something they never intended to say. I find such an approach as vapid as the premise is deceptive.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
sorry to chime in so late :D

i haven't done enough research on this topic to really have any hard evidence or well thought out argument for my oppinion, but no, i do not think biblical prophesy is reliable.

from what i gather, there are 3 types of prophesy.

1) predicting shifts in world events and politics. yeah, in 2000 years, i suspect there will be some shifting, so the fact that some guy might have also said there will be some shifting 2000 years ago does not mean he was a prophet.

2) revelation of the coming of God's Kingdom on earth. in order to judge something as reliable or not, we need to see it tested. in other words, after i have seen revelation played out, i will potentially accept it as reliable - but that will be after the end times, so the point is mute.

3) Bible Code. FFH is a big fan of those, and from what i have read of his threads on the subject, it is just as valid as Runes, Scrying, Dowsing and Tarot.


the only other thing i can really think of is, taking biblical prophecy on faith - which has no bearing on reliability at all.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I you believe Bible Prophecy is reliable, then you have to believe the Book of Mormon is true, because the bible prophesies of the Book of Mormon.

I don't read that specific prophecy anywhere in the Bible. Perhaps there's a glitch in understanding, somewhere?
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
sorry to chime in so late :D

i haven't done enough research on this topic to really have any hard evidence or well thought out argument for my oppinion, but no, i do not think biblical prophesy is reliable.

from what i gather, there are 3 types of prophesy.

1) predicting shifts in world events and politics. yeah, in 2000 years, i suspect there will be some shifting, so the fact that some guy might have also said there will be some shifting 2000 years ago does not mean he was a prophet.

2) revelation of the coming of God's Kingdom on earth. in order to judge something as reliable or not, we need to see it tested. in other words, after i have seen revelation played out, i will potentially accept it as reliable - but that will be after the end times, so the point is mute.

3) Bible Code. FFH is a big fan of those, and from what i have read of his threads on the subject, it is just as valid as Runes, Scrying, Dowsing and Tarot.


the only other thing i can really think of is, taking biblical prophecy on faith - which has no bearing on reliability at all.

Why I study Bible Prophecy?
"And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe." John 14:29
"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:25-27
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:21
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:" 2 Peter 1:19
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." Revelation 1:1-3
Those who believe in the Bible are admonished to investigate and test Bible Prophecy
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Those who believe in the Bible are admonished to investigate and test Bible Prophecy

the only quote you gave that has bearing on this subject was this one:

"And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe." John 14:29


the rest are just verses in the bible saying "believe what is written in the bible" which is circular logic.

to discuss this quoted verse then, John obviously accepts that observing prophecy coming true first hand is reason to believe it - what prophecy have we seen come true? non that i am aware of, because to my knowledge they fit into one of the first two categories i specified in my above post.
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
the only quote you gave that has bearing on this subject was this one:



the rest are just verses in the bible saying "believe what is written in the bible" which is circular logic.

to discuss this quoted verse then, John obviously accepts that observing prophecy coming true first hand is reason to believe it - what prophecy have we seen come true? non that i am aware of, because to my knowledge they fit into one of the first two categories i specified in my above post.
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I can think of many, but for arguments sake, Lets look at the fact that people go to church on Sunday. We can certainly agree that people go to church on Sunday, even though there is no Biblical basis for it.

The Bible predicts this would happen -despite the fact that the Bible is easy enough for anyone to understand and Bibles are almost everywhere and readily available for people to read .


1260 Day Prophecy
check out post 75-79 in "Is Bible prophecy reliable?"
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55011&page=8
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
I can think of many, but for arguments sake, Lets look at the fact that people go to church on Sunday. We can certainly agree that people go to church on Sunday, even though there is no Biblical basis for it.

The Bible predicts this would happen -despite the fact that the Bible is easy enough for anyone to understand and Bibles are almost everywhere and readily available for people to read .

the bible says nothing about people going to church on Sunday... the bible predicts people will go to church on Sunday... so which one is it? because both of the above can't be true...

1260 Day Prophecy
check out post 75-79 in "Is Bible prophecy reliable?"
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55011&page=8
ok, i'll check that out and get back to you.

*edit: there is too much numerology in that for me to think about so late at night (it's about 4:30am over here in the UK), i will look at it over the weekend as i'm busy tomorrow and get back to you then.
 
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