I Want to be Forgiven!

Tangnefedd said:

I think maybe God should ask forgiveness from us before expecting us to forgive. If you think he is responsible for the world and everything that is in it, then he must have created illness and suffering, NICE ONE GOD!

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Jeesh, what an attitude.

Tangnefedd said:

Unless someone wants to be forgiven for their actions I don't think you can forgive them.

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I know I can. I've done it. Actually for me the necessary criterion for me to forgive isn't that someone apologizes, it's that I can understand why they did what they did, or why they do what they continue to do. If I can understand the fear and pain that drives them, I can have compassion.

Tangnefedd said:

I think maybe God should ask forgiveness from us before expecting us to forgive. If you think he is responsible for the world and everything that is in it, then he must have created illness and suffering, NICE ONE GOD!

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The thing is, God is NOT responsible for everything in the world. We are responsible for a large part of it. Our free will, therefore our responsibility. To blame everything on an omnipotent God is a cop-out.

The thing is, God is NOT responsible for everything in the world. We are responsible for a large part of it. Our free will, therefore our responsibility. To blame everything on an omnipotent God is a cop-out.

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That's right. It may be hard to understand the consequences of sin, although the Bible says the wages of sin is death, hence the fall, hence suffering, disease, etc. This is just a spiritual law, like gravity is a physical law, it won't be suspended for you if you fall off a cliff. I would not be so quick to blame God.

Katzpur said:

In a myriad of ways, Darkness, none of which I intend to divulge on the internet. I am so far from being what He wants me to be that it's not even funny.

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It is not my intent to learn all of your "sins." It is my intent to make you think about how God views you. God is probably sitting up in heaven wondering why you are afraid of falling short of His standard. You do not need to apologize to God for your short-comings. Apologize to the ones you have wronged. You have not wronged God in anyway. You are simple being human. If God did not love you the way you are, God would not have formed you thus.

Katzpur said:

In a myriad of ways, Darkness, none of which I intend to divulge on the internet. I am so far from being what He wants me to be that it's not even funny.

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Sweetness, I do not believe that. :hug:

I have no illusions about you being a saint. But I know that God wants you to be perfect and yet God also loves you just the way you are. Both are true at the same time. :angel2:

Katzpur said:

Matthew 6:14-15 states, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

I am really struggling with this commandment, and would seriously appreciate input from Christians of all denominations. How do you go about forgiving someone who has wronged you when he or she is completely unrepentant? I'm pretty good at forgiving people who admit they've wrong me, apologize and sincerely try to improve in the future, but Jesus didn't teach that we should only forgive those who meet those qualifications. What do you all think about this commandment? Are you able to forgive people who continually hurt you?

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Who says you have to? I’m personally horrible at holding grudges or retaining any feelings longer then a couple days. It’s as if you never did anything to me. Even when they haven’t apologized or even remotely show any signs of being sorry. I usually distance myself from them and let it go.

Now, when it’s family it’s a bit more complicated but I usually follow the same process. Am I bound to forgive such people? I don’t think so. I am called to be Chris-like and like Christ, had conditions upon whom He’d forgive. Repentance of heart being a crucial one. True repentance involves sorrow for acts of wrong doing and leads to a fundamental change in attitude. If this is absent in a person, what would you forgiving him bring to the relationship? Ever consider that you forgiving him would actually make matters worse?

The way I see it, I will forgive anybody or retain from forgiving anybody for the sole purpose of hopefully bringing about some change in the person. Listen to what John has to say:

John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

You can retain sins?

I can give you story after story of how much peace this has brought me.

Darkness said:

It is not my intent to learn all of your "sins." It is my intent to make you think about how God views you. God is probably sitting up in heaven wondering why you are afraid of falling short of His standard. You do not need to apologize to God for your short-comings. Apologize to the ones you have wronged. You have not wronged God in anyway. You are simple being human. If God did not love you the way you are, God would not have formed you thus.

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Sorry, Darkness. I guess I thought you were prying when you really weren't. According to LDS doctrine, God will not tolerate sin "with the least degree of allowance." In other words, it's not a matter of whether your good deeds outweigh your sins. God won't tolerate sin. Period.

Admittedly, that makes God sound unnecessarily harsh, since it's a no-brainer to think we can live a life completely free from sin. In actuality, LDS doctrine (and I'm assuming Christian doctrine in general) teaches that every last one of our sins can be erased completely from God's memory if we do three things (1) make every effort to change our behavior, (2) trust in Jesus Christ's Atonement, and (3) forgive those who have wronged us. See, I have no problem with numbers 1 and 2. It's number 3 I struggle with.

I know I'm probably being harder on myself than God is. At least He knows I'm trying. There are just a few people in my life I'm having a hard time forgiving, and in every instance I can think of, they are people who would hurt me again at the drop of a hat if they had the chance. That's why I'm struggling.

I was digging around in the "closets" of RF and found this thread.

I've never encountered anyone who I thought would be so willing to hurt me, and can't imagine the struggle that would put me into.
I love the doctrine that the blessings of forgiveness are not for the wrongdoer, but for the victim. It doesn't take the former off the hook one bit--they are still in complete need of repentence. Forgiveness is a blessing meant for the victim. It's part of tapping into the power of the atonement and how the atonement is to heal all wounds, not just sins.

But it would be hard, because it would FEEL like it's letting the perpetrator off easy and leaving yourself open for another hit. And, darn it, they just don't deserve that without an apology! But that's between them and God. If we can let go, the healing blessings are wonderful.

I loved Elder Scott's* talk about abuse victims today in General Conference. The atonement really has the power to heal. How incredible is that!

(*I forgot I wasn't in the LDS forum. Elder Scott is an apostle in our church,--in case anyone was wondering.)

Forgiveness works.

When we died we, won't remember this life, so why worry about who's wronged us ??

We will, however, be punished for hating another/others, in the next life, if we don't repent of that sin, in this life.

Starfish said:

I was digging around in the "closets" of RF and found this thread.

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Well, I'm glad a few people do that. It's nice to resurrect old topics now and then, especially when there's stil lots more to say about them.

I've never encountered anyone who I thought would be so willing to hurt me, and can't imagine the struggle that would put me into.

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I probably made that sound worse than it is, but I was thinking about a couple of people at work who seem intent on making me look bad. They do so at every opportunity. If I were to forgive them today, tomorrow they'd be at it again. When I know that's the case, it's hard for me to be sincere in forgiving them.

I love the doctrine that the blessings of forgiveness are not for the wrongdoer, but for the victim.

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Yes, I love that, too, and I totally believe it. There is very little we can do for the wrongdoer. That's God's job, not ours. But I read a saying once that really impressed me:

"Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

Katzpur said:

"Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die."

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I had forgotten that quote! I heard it once on a radio talk show. LOVE IT.

Katzpur said:

I see what you mean, but it's so hard for me to separate forgiveness and trust. God says that when He forgives us of our sins, He'll also forget them. (At least that's what the LDS teach. Is that your belief, too?) So shouldn't our goal be to put the hurt behind us entirely? Obviously, there are some things we can't forget, and as you implied, if we continue to trust people who continue to hurt us, we're really just opening ourselves up to more hurt. There are a few people in my life who have really hurt me. Knowing they'd do the same thing again in a minute if they had the chance makes it really hard for me to forgive them. Maybe understanding why they would do some of the things they do would be a good first step.

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Well, we can't go around being angry and we can't just forget the way God does. So I ask God to help me forgive and forget. The sooner I forgive, the easier it is to forget. I don't think we're supposed to keep spending time with people who want us to behave in an ungodly way. Just see them occasionally or almost not at all.

Ephesians 4
26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

God forgave me when I didn't deserve His forgiveness; why should I withhold my forgiveness from another until that person behaves in a way I approve of?

Ephesians 4
31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

1 Corinthians 15
34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Katzpur said:

According to LDS doctrine, God will not tolerate sin "with the least degree of allowance." In other words, it's not a matter of whether your good deeds outweigh your sins. God won't tolerate sin. Period.

Admittedly, that makes God sound unnecessarily harsh, since it's a no-brainer to think we can live a life completely free from sin. In actuality, LDS doctrine (and I'm assuming Christian doctrine in general) teaches that every last one of our sins can be erased completely from God's memory if we do three things (1) make every effort to change our behavior, (2) trust in Jesus Christ's Atonement, and (3) forgive those who have wronged us. See, I have no problem with numbers 1 and 2. It's number 3 I struggle with.

I know I'm probably being harder on myself than God is. At least He knows I'm trying. There are just a few people in my life I'm having a hard time forgiving, and in every instance I can think of, they are people who would hurt me again at the drop of a hat if they had the chance. That's why I'm struggling.

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If I am aware of sins in my own life, I go to God for forgiveness and help. :help:

1 John 1
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



His mercies are new every morning!:yes:



Lamentations 3

22It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

23They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

24The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.

I pray this prayer and I'm so overwhelmed by God's love because I know He wants to sanctify those who have come to Christ (those who are trusting that He truly and completely paid for the sins of His followers on the cross of Calvary):
Psalm 139
23Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

24And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

God restores my soul! He leads me in paths of righteousness!

I can be kind and compassionate to others, forgiving them, just as in Christ God forgave me. :yes:

This is some good advice.

Luke 17:1-4 (NIV)

1Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3So watch yourselves.
"If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."

Notice the person has said he is trying to repent, however

Matthew 10:23

23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.



It depends on whether or not the person is actually trying to repent. If they aren't willing to repent then change your circumstances.

Katzpur said:

Matthew 6:14-15 states, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

I am really struggling with this commandment, and would seriously appreciate input from Christians of all denominations. How do you go about forgiving someone who has wronged you when he or she is completely unrepentant? I'm pretty good at forgiving people who admit they've wrong me, apologize and sincerely try to improve in the future, but Jesus didn't teach that we should only forgive those who meet those qualifications. What do you all think about this commandment? Are you able to forgive people who continually hurt you?

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Hi there.

The scripture you mentioned above was a command given about forgiveness to the disciples before jesus was crucified.

After Jesus was crucified he said:

John 20:23

If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

So then...what do you make of it?

Whoever god has forgiven, is forgiven. We cant unforgive them. So, since we dont want to go against what god has done through jesus, we forgive freely those who god has forgiven. No matter what they do to us. Who was not forgiven? Nobody. Everybody was given mercy and forgiven. Jesus took carried away the sins of the whole world.

So then...who did the father NOT forgive? Nobody. But since he cross the sins of the world has been piling up havent they. Sins against god who forgave all mankind their sins. So the only sin that can not be forgiven AFTER the crucifixtion are the sins against mercy. That is the sin of unbelief. There is no more forgiveness for unbelief.

If we want to not forgive somebody, we have to ask ourselves if we are willing to let god not forgive US if we did the same thing. We think that we would not do the same thing, but without god we are just as bad as our worst enemy. And while we were still sinners god forgave us. So while people do horrible things to us, we forgive them. But we cannot forgive their unbelief, since god wont forgive their unbelief in his mercy.

Jesus carried the sins of the whole world away. To trample on that mercy would be dishonouring jesus, and the father wont sacrifice his son again.

Heneni

Forgiveness is actually for you, the forgiver, the the person being forgiven.

You have a resentment, an anger against someone who has harmed you. So you rent space in your head to them. Do you think your resentment is hurting them or you more? They may not even know you are mad, or don't even think about it, or could care less. So your anger hurts you, it keeps you from being happy, it holds you back from truly enjoying each moment, as this resentment is alaways lurking in the background. So do you deserve to be happy, do you deserve to get rid of this anger/hate inside of you? Its only hurting you.

Katzpur said:

Matthew 6:14-15 states, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

I am really struggling with this commandment, and would seriously appreciate input from Christians of all denominations. How do you go about forgiving someone who has wronged you when he or she is completely unrepentant? I'm pretty good at forgiving people who admit they've wrong me, apologize and sincerely try to improve in the future, but Jesus didn't teach that we should only forgive those who meet those qualifications. What do you all think about this commandment? Are you able to forgive people who continually hurt you?

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I think if we really grasp and appreciate that we have been freely forgiven, that disposition allows us to forgive others.

ἀλήθεια;1234264 said:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

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The context of this verse begins with "This is the message that we have heard from him and declare to you:" The gospel message covering original sin and personal sins and ends with verse 10. In the following verses it does say that if any christian sins he has an advocate with the Father in heaven. But of course that is directed at his 'little children' and not the later mentioned 'young men' and 'fathers'.

As for the verse about forgiveness, I have heard a lot of twisted thoughts regarding it. To address the verse we need to understand why God would say such a thing. A verse to consider.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

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It is the divine nature that can forgive as your talking about. If we have been born again, we have the divine nature within us. If we have the divine nature then we have also escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust or human desire. If you have escaped the corruption then you have stopped sinning. Why is this? It is because you have seen the beauty in the person of Christ and have put on Christ and deny yourself. Knowing that this world is in rebellion against the God that created them, you begin to understand the evil that is in it and you hate it. You realize you now hate some of the things you used to enjoy because you understand that they are just part of the rebellion.

If your having trouble with forgiveness then you haven't escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. There is within you a desire for something whether it be justice, self-respect, or some other desire. If it be justice we commit all judgement unto Christ. Christ was selfless. We are called to be the same. Remember "He who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin".