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What does FREEDOM mean to you?
- Thread starter Scuba Pete
- Start date
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
The Bible, which says it is God's Word more than three thousand times, and proves it by correctly fortelling future events more than two thousand times, says salvation is a free gift:
Ephesians 2:8-9
God's grace has saved you because of your faith in Christ. Your salvation doesn't come from anything you do. It is God's gift. It is not based on anything you have done. No one can brag about earning it.
Romans 3:24
The free gift of God's grace makes all of us right with him. Christ Jesus paid the price to set us free.
Galatians 3:18
The great gift (salvation) that God has for us does not depend on the law. If it did, it would no longer depend on a promise. But God gave it to Abraham as a free gift through a promise.
Revelation 22:17
The Holy Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Let those who hear say, "Come!" Anyone who is thirsty should come. Anyone who wants to take the free gift of the water of life should do so.
Its like this. We are sinners. We accept the free gift. We are now sinners saved by grace. The Holy Spirit now will work in us as we sinners saved by grace, grow in grace and he will produce the fruits of love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, gentleness, etc. He will help set us free from the bondage of sin in our life to live a truly joyous life of love and peace and abundance we could never have know otherwise. He will open our spiritual eyes as we grow to see the true love of God which passes all understanding. And because of the great love God has for us, his great mercy and everlasting kindness and forgiveness and grace which far exceeds all the sin of this world, that is, for all our sins, there is an abundance of grace and a thousand times more overflowing! Because of this great and unconditional love which God has freely given us, we can love others like we had never known possible. God takes us out of bondage and into liberty, and whom the Son sets free is free indeed!
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
joeboonda said:
I feel like I am arguing with a wall.
All right, let me try this another way. If I accept God's gift, can I still think He was wrong for killing millions in the Old Testament? Can I still think homosexuality is perfectly fine? If I cannot keep all of these things, then the price was not free, and I have payed much for salvation.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
Yes, you can come to Christ just as you are, a sinner in need of a Saviour, with all your questions about God and why he did this or hates that, etc.. If you can realize that you are a poor, lost, sinner without any hope except that Christ died for you, and accept him as your Saviour, you are right then and there saved completely, forever. Come to him with all your doubts, sins, and questions, just as you are. When we trust Christ nobody understands everything right then and we all have questions about many things. But if one understands the main thing, that Christ died for you so you may live forever and all you have to do is believe in him, that one step of faith, like jumping from a fire into a net, just one step and God does the rest. We may not understand about who made the net and the strength of the firemen, and many other things, but we take that one step of faith. Then, God promises us that right then, the Holy Spirit indwells us and will lead and guide us into all truth. There are many Christians that don't understand everything about, how could God kill so many people who were exceedingly violent and wicked or not like homosexuals (he does) or any multitude of things like Hell, why there is suffering and evil, disease, death, etc. But I assure you, once a person sees they are a sinner in need of a Saviour, and trust Christ, God will begin to transform them and light their path and give them a clearer understanding of these other things. It all starts with accepting the love of Jesus.
Just to make sure everyone is aware of the rules of the game.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I see that the name of the forum is a mis-nomer. Oh well.
blackout
Violet.
Freedom for me is dynamic participation in the birthright of co-creation.
When I took back the creative authorship of my life in The Spirit,
from all worldly "author"ity, all the lies of the systemic slavery,
the yoke of the world's rules and rulers,
that was when my life became a supernatural freedom.
No longer bound by anyone else's expectations...
I am free to actually be me.
Free to actualize a life of VISION that has little or nothing to do with the ways of this world.
Free to reach, and walk beyond the veil.....
and swim in the Sea/see of the Spirit...
while all about my feet flowers are blooming in the desert.
Man says... "this is this" and "that is that"...
But my "Father" says....
what do YOU imagine it to be ... in me?
And then I move, act, live, as if ... it is so.
and the most amazing things start to happen....
Why do the churches not teach clearly that the Kingdom of which Y'shua spoke...
is NOW... in our Midst. He never did what the world and church leaders said he was "supposed to"...
and he LITERALLY broke all the "laws of nature" as well.
In the Spirit first... then manifest on out into the physical REALITY.
That's where the freedom is, and the supernatural life.
This is active faith. Faith in action.
There is NO freedom when others are authoring your life for you.
Telling you what is and what isn't so...
what is and what isn't possible!
Jesus co-authored his life with "TheFather" alone.
Why do we hand over our own God given authority so easily?
To a world that holds minds and men in a bondage so "everywhere" ....
it's hard to pinpoint and see where the illusion actually begins and ends...
What freedom is there in that?
Of course a life of true freedom,
lived openly,
could just get you crucified.
For all it's double crossing...
The world doesn't like being crossed.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
That is between you and the Lord. The BIble does not say to be saved we "give ouself over to his will", it says to be saved we believe in Jesus. We trust him that his death paid for ALL our sins and are now forgiven and have his righteousness imputed to us in place of our own. I believe salvation is like the person who jumps out of the burning building trusting in the net to save them. The moment they jumped, they were saved, no need to repeat it. I got saved at the age of 8 and am just as saved now at 42 as I was then and everyday in between and everyday after. Because it is God who keeps us, not we who keep ourselves, salvation is from God, he does the saving and the keeping. Having said that, if one truly trusted alone in Christ alone, nothing added, then God will keep them. But there are many who make an outward confession but have had no inward conversion, Like Judas. If one has not truly trusted completely in the work of Christ on the cross, then God has not saved them and God is not keeping them. If you are an atheist now, I greatly question your conversion, although I know the gods of the world have greatly confounded and confused many, even Christians. We are humans and we will have doubts and confusion about many things throughout our lives. But, God is faithful, God keeps all who call to him and nothing, absolutely nothing is greater than God, including ourselves and nothing can pluck us out of his hand. We cannot be unadopted, once we are born again we cannot be unborn, doesn't happen in the physical, nor in the spiritual. The question is whether you were truly born-again, because if you were, God would keep you and you would not be as those who draw back because of unbelief. Doubts and confusion are normal and they happen, but one whom God has saved, God will keep, that is his promise, as the Bible says in 2 Timothy 1:12b:
for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
That is between you and the Lord. I believe salvation is like the person who jumps out of the burning building trusting in the net to save them. The moment they jumped, they were saved, no need to repeat it. I got saved at the age of 8 and am just as saved now at 42 as I was then and everyday in between and everyday after. Because it is God who keeps us, not we who keep ourselves, salvation is from God, he does the saving and the keeping. Having said that, if one truly trusted alone in Christ alone, nothing added, then God will keep them. But there are many who make an outward confession but have had no inward conversion, Like Judas. If one has not truly trusted completely in the work of Christ on the cross, then God has not saved them and God is not keeping them. If you are an atheist now, I greatly question your conversion, although I know the gods of the world have greatly confounded and confused many, even Christians. We are humans and we will have doubts and confusion about many things throughout our lives. But, God is faithful, God keeps all who call to him and nothing, absolutely nothing is greater than God, including ourselves and nothing can pluck us out of his hand. We cannot be unadopted, once we are born again we cannot be unborn, doesn't happen in the physical nor the spiritual. The question is whether you were truly born-again, because if you were, God would keep you and you would not be as those who draw back because of unbelief. Doubts and confusion are normal and they happen, but one whom God has saved, God will keep, that is his promise, as the Bible says in 2 Timothy 1:12b:
for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
That is between you and the Lord. The Bible does not say to be saved one must "completely give themself over to his will." The Bible says to be saved one must believe in Jesus. Trust him that his death paid for ALL their sins and are now forgiven and have his righteousness imputed to them in place of their own. I believe salvation is like the person who jumps out of the burning building trusting in the net to save them. The moment they jumped, they were saved, no need to repeat it. I got saved at the age of 8 and am just as saved now at 42 as I was then and everyday in between and everyday after. Because it is God who keeps us, not we who keep ourselves, salvation is from God, he does the saving and the keeping. Having said that, if one truly trusted alone in Christ alone, nothing added, then God will keep them. But there are many who don't truly understand how to be saved, perhaps it was not explained correctly, or who make an outward confession but have had no inward conversion, Like Judas. If one has not truly trusted completely in the work of Christ on the cross, then God has not saved them and God is not keeping them. If you are an atheist now, I greatly question your conversion, although I know the gods of this world have greatly deceived, confounded and confused many, even Christians. We are humans and we will have doubts and confusion about many things throughout our lives. But, God is faithful, God keeps all who call to him and nothing, absolutely nothing is greater than God, including ourselves and nothing can pluck us out of his hand. We cannot be unadopted, once we are born again we cannot be unborn, doesn't happen in the physical, nor in the spiritual. The question is whether you were truly born-again, because if you were, God would keep you and you would not be as those who draw back because of unbelief. Doubts and confusion are normal and they happen, but one whom God has saved, God will keep, that is his promise, as the Bible says in 2 Timothy 1:12b:
"...for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Have you studied Aleister Crowley? This is very similar to his notion of True Will.
It also fits nicely with Scuba Pete's Biblical quote:
To me, this stands in stark contrast to the Gospel. The imagery of the yoke and the slave is used often as an allegory for Christian faith. One example is Matthew 11:29:
How many Epistles include a self-description of the author as a "bond-servant of Christ"?
It strikes me as strange that on the one hand, we'd be taught to not ever let ourselves be burdened by a yoke of slavery, and on the other hand, to take up Christ's yoke and become slaves to Him.
Perhaps it's a test? Maybe Christ only wants those who know to not accept the gilded cage.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
To me, this stands in stark contrast to the Gospel. The imagery of the yoke and the slave is used often as an allegory for Christian faith. One example is Matthew 11:29:
How many Epistles include a self-description of the author as a "bond-servant of Christ"?
It strikes me as strange that on the one hand, we'd be taught to not ever let ourselves be burdened by a yoke of slavery, and on the other hand, to take up Christ's yoke and become slaves to Him.
Perhaps it's a test? Maybe Christ only wants those who know to not accept the gilded cage.
It is an interesting contradiction! But each author of the Bible put his own ingredients into the pot--so to speak. And perhaps it reveals something shared about the human experience...
Slavery and freedom are arbitrary terms. One person's slavery is another's freedom. One person's marriage is another's ball-and-chain.
We are all imprisoned by the limits of our perception, but are also infinite in our imagination.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Scripturally that refers to freedom from the bondage (slavery) of death.
Personally it means I have eternal life through Christ.
Freedom from slavery to the things of the world.