What Did Adam and Eve Do Wrong?

Tangnefedd said:

Of course I don't believe the Adam and Eve story to be more than a myth, but just supposing it was true, what on earth did the pair do wrong? They used their God given intelligence to find out more about the world around them, good for them. If God had wanted obedient puppets then he shouldn't have created them with curiousity! For God to chuck them out of Eden, and cursing humanity forever was OTT, and then some! When my grandsons have a temper tantrum I put them on the 'naughty stair', maybe God's mum should have done the same with him!!!

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I would agree with you if God didn't warn them about it clearly.

[19] "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."


[20] Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live forever."


[21] And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.

[22] So by deceit he brought about their fall: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the Garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"

[23] They said: "Our Lord! we have wronged our own souls: if Thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."


[24] (Allah) said: "Get ye down, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood for a time."


[25] He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."


[26] O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition!

[27] O ye Children of Adam! let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as he got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the Evil Ones friends (only) to those without Faith. (Quran 7:19-27)

Here is the most important part of the story where we can find in another Sura.

[35] We said: "O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."


[36] Then did Satan make them slip from the (Garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of livelihood for a time."


[37] Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (Quran 2:35-37)

He forgave them and there was no need for any curse upon human beings after that.

Any fair and wise human being wouldn't curse and punish the sons and daughters of a pair who did a mistake, how about the One who created those human beings?

Wouldn't he be more forgiving than us, much more wiser than us?

I think there is no question about that.


Peace and blessing,
TT

joeboonda said:

I just have to say that they did do something wrong, they disobeyed God. This is a central theme of the Bible:

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But what if God was wrong in restricting them from advancing their knowledge? Blah, this is pointless! Not even a tiny part of you will question God, no matter what we bring up.

Darkness said:

But what if God was wrong in restricting them from advancing their knowledge? Blah, this is pointless! Not even a tiny part of you will question God, no matter what we bring up.

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I believe that God was giving them a choice. The choice wasn't to obey Him or disobey Him. The choice was to leave His presence in the Garden of Eden and go through life with the opportunity to advance their knowledge and experience so that they could become like Him.

Tangnefedd said:

Of course I don't believe the Adam and Eve story to be more than a myth, but just supposing it was true, what on earth did the pair do wrong? They used their God given intelligence to find out more about the world around them, good for them. If God had wanted obedient puppets then he shouldn't have created them with curiousity! For God to chuck them out of Eden, and cursing humanity forever was OTT, and then some! When my grandsons have a temper tantrum I put them on the 'naughty stair', maybe God's mum should have done the same with him!!!

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Well, what they did "wrong" was disobey. The problem is, they didn't know (or at least fully understand) that disobedience was wrong until they actually ate the forbidden fruit. I don't believe that God wanted "obedient puppets" but that He wanted Adam and Eve to be able to progress and learn. They couldn't have done that had they not disobeyed. They would never have known the difference between good and evil and thus would never have been able to make any informed choices in the future. God told them up front that they'd be put in the "naughty chair" if they disobeyed, though, so He was entirely justified in putting them there when they disobeyed. But since He is a much more benevolent God that you seem to believe He is, He provided a way in which they could eventually get out of the chair and go on to become much more than they have ever become in Eden.

joeboonda said:

Genesis 3

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

I believe the events described in Genesis are historical fact. Jesus referred to Adam and Eve. His lineage is traced to Adam. Adam and Eve had but one command from God, which was not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The serpent, whom I believe was indwelt by Satan, told the first lie, "Yea, hath God said?" A lie still told today, "Yea, is the BIble really the Word of God? Then another lie, "Ye shall not surely die." He then told another lie, "Ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Lots of people today tell that lie, that you shall be gods or as gods. Then he hit Eve with a one-two-three combination knock-out punch. The Bible says in 1 John 2:16 that there are three areas we may be tempted in: the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. Eve "saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise...and did eat." 1-2-3 Out! She didn't stand a chance.

In James it says if we offend in one point of the law, we are guilty of all. This means that to a perfectly holy God, one sin is enough to separate us from him, as we would be consumed in his presence. That is why all the good we can do to try to "earn" salvation "falls short". We are ALL concluded under sin, the Bible says ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. That there is none righteous, no not one. That the heart of man is wicked and deceitful above all things. Notice they tried to cover their nakedness by their own efforts in making coverings of fig leaves, but in verse 11 God killed animals and made them coverings of skins, a picture of our inability by our own works of righteousness to save ourselves, and of Christ's sacrifice, the only sinless man who could pay for our sins and redeem us from the fall, reconciling us to God. The day they ate thereof, they died spiritually toward God, and began to die physically. This is why Jesus said we MUST be born again. Its the only thing he said we MUST do. It is a spiritual rebirth by simply trusting that God accepted the sacrifice of his son for payment of all the sins of all the world for all time, once and for all. This is the Gospel. It truly is good news!

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I must admit I find it hard to understand how anyone can view the creation story and much of the early part of the Bible as historically correct. I don't think many Christians believe that to be so these days, I know my Anglican Priest daughter doesn't believe it to be more than an allegory. If it is historically correct then God is not a deity worth worshipping imo!

joeboonda said:

Hi, Jonny! Will you see this? I 've been on your ignore list for years now. (I hope that can change someday, friend, I am sincerely always hopeful of that.) It is off the subject of the thread, but my brief answer is as the Bible states many times there is only one God and no other, none besides, none before, no not one, that this verse refers to the 3 persons of whom God is made up, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believe at creation they were present, as the Holy Spirit of God brooded over the face of the earth, and God said, "let there be..." i.e. the Word, Jesus, who was with God and was God. I believe that Jesus was always with God and was God, as he said that before Abraham was, I AM., which is a name for God, and he is Immanuel, God with us, God incarnate. I understand we have differences here, as I believe in one and only one God and no other made up of three persons, and you apparently believe in many gods as you infer in your question "as one of us", which is blasphemy for me, but central to the Mormon faith, I take from your question. Belief in a plurality of gods is not part of my religion and I really don't want to debate here nor do I have the time these days. I respect your beliefs and understand where your are coming from and are just defending your faith, which is admirable. Peace.

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That's all very well and good, Mike, but you didn't answer the question jonny asked. Genesis 3:22 states: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever..." Could you please just explain who you believe the LORD God to have been referring to in the words I've put in boldface?

Tangnefedd said:

Of course I don't believe the Adam and Eve story to be more than a myth, but just supposing it was true, what on earth did the pair do wrong? They used their God given intelligence to find out more about the world around them, good for them. If God had wanted obedient puppets then he shouldn't have created them with curiousity! For God to chuck them out of Eden, and cursing humanity forever was OTT, and then some! When my grandsons have a temper tantrum I put them on the 'naughty stair', maybe God's mum should have done the same with him!!!

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Well, if we accept the story as true and the pair did not eat of the tree of knowledge then I would not exist.

Go Adam!

I like the islamic version better. For one it was not the tree of knowledge, it was simply a tree that Allah gave to Adam. It was not so much a tree as it was a plant, wheat plant to be exact, and we know that wheat and other grains are the staple diet of mankind. The pair did nothing, it was Adam who was made to forget the orders given by Allah. The entire thing was a practical lesson for Adam about making choices, and where they can lead. It wasn't a punishment it was simply the will of Allah to create mankind to be the inhabitants of the earth, not paradise. In the whole scene the only one to get punished was shaitan. His punishment was because he, also having a free will, decided to disobey Allah. His punishment was severe because unlike us, who are working on the evidence of Allah's existance, shaitan had KNOWLEDGE of Allah's existance. There is a big difference. His disobedience carried a heavier weight, heavier than what Adam went through although Adam knew of Allah's existance too. Shaitan spent long years in the service of Allah, and so had a track record for good. His decline to obey the order of prostration was an arrogant move, and his standing firm on that foolishness is what landed him to be accursed among creation. Furthermore in his stupidity, shaitan blames Allah for cursing him, when in fact it was the plan of shaitan all along to disobey Allah if he was ever ordered to do anything regarding man.

1) Shaitan did not think he could overthrow Allah. Thats not what it was about. It was about the very first prejudice. Shaitan felt he was better than man and so would never follow any orders to serve or assist the man in any way. To further the argument that shaitan is not Allah's equal is the fact that he was left undestroyed. Shaitan is no threat to Allah in the least so therefore Allah had no reason to blink him out of existance, which He could have. Instead shaitan is still performing the will of Allah. He is no more than a tool, the fire that Allah uses to either forge mankind into the best of all creations spiritually, or it is the fire that will destroy us.

2) Shaitan was not an angel...period.

3) Allah was not afraid that mankind would know or do anything. Allah is the one that bestowed upon them intelligence, so why would He then stifle it?

4) Woman is not the root cause of all evil.....period. Neither is man for that matter and neither are we all cursed for their actions. Allah forgave them and that was that.

5) Shaitan is a mere tool. He is not a rival god. He is not the lord of hell and he has no dominion. His abilities are limited to suggesting the disobedience to Allah, and in this way to follow in his path. This is why Allah warns people in Quran not to follow the foosteps of shaitan.

That is the islamic version and I like it better because it does not mischaracterize humans into these evil things full of sin.

gnomon said:

Well, if we accept the story as true and the pair did not eat of the tree of knowledge then I would not exist.

Go Adam!

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That's exactly what Mormons believe. Shall I see about filling the baptismal font?

lilithu said:

Nothing.

The "Fall" was inevitable. It was necessary for humanity to grow up - to take responsibility for our own destiny.

I don't believe that God was mad, despite what the scriptures say, and I don't believe that God tossed them out of Eden out of spite. Rather, the loss of Eden was also inevitable. A&E learned the difference between good and evil and were no longer innocent. Eden was a state of innocence, where everything was simply handed to them. With their new-found knowledge they simply could not stay in that state. They had to work for their own beings. They may have perceived it as a punishment but God was merely facilitating what had to be.

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Oh so many frubals ofr that. I agree.

lilithu said:

Nothing.

The "Fall" was inevitable. It was necessary for humanity to grow up - to take responsibility for our own destiny.

I don't believe that God was mad, despite what the scriptures say, and I don't believe that God tossed them out of Eden out of spite. Rather, the loss of Eden was also inevitable. A&E learned the difference between good and evil and were no longer innocent. Eden was a state of innocence, where everything was simply handed to them. With their new-found knowledge they simply could not stay in that state. They had to work for their own beings. They may have perceived it as a punishment but God was merely facilitating what had to be.

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That's pretty much how I see it. How on earth could Adam and Eve have ever progressed in Eden? To anyone who insists that God's wish was that they remain blissfully ignorant in the Garden for eternity, I ask this: Have you ever been discouraged because you were unable to accomplish something you wanted very much and then finally, after a lot of hard work, succeeded? If you never had to work for anything, if you never had to face obstacles, if you never had to fail a few times before you succeeded, just how sweet would the success be? If you never were ill or ever felt pain, would you think to thank God for the relief you felt when your health or well-being was restored? You would have nothing with which to compare your perfect existance; consequently you would be highly unlikely to see it as a blessing. There is no way Adam and Eve's existence in Eden would ultimately have blessed them as much as their existence outside of Eden did. God is not stupid. He set the stage for the plot to unfold in such a way that mankind could come to exist and to find joy in his existence.

fullyveiled muslimah said:

I like the islamic version better. For one it was not the tree of knowledge, it was simply a tree that Allah gave to Adam. It was not so much a tree as it was a plant, wheat plant to be exact, and we know that wheat and other grains are the staple diet of mankind. The pair did nothing, it was Adam who was made to forget the orders given by Allah. The entire thing was a practical lesson for Adam about making choices, and where they can lead. It wasn't a punishment it was simply the will of Allah to create mankind to be the inhabitants of the earth, not paradise. In the whole scene the only one to get punished was shaitan. His punishment was because he, also having a free will, decided to disobey Allah. His punishment was severe because unlike us, who are working on the evidence of Allah's existance, shaitan had KNOWLEDGE of Allah's existance. There is a big difference. His disobedience carried a heavier weight, heavier than what Adam went through although Adam knew of Allah's existance too. Shaitan spent long years in the service of Allah, and so had a track record for good. His decline to obey the order of prostration was an arrogant move, and his standing firm on that foolishness is what landed him to be accursed among creation. Furthermore in his stupidity, shaitan blames Allah for cursing him, when in fact it was the plan of shaitan all along to disobey Allah if he was ever ordered to do anything regarding man.

1) Shaitan did not think he could overthrow Allah. Thats not what it was about. It was about the very first prejudice. Shaitan felt he was better than man and so would never follow any orders to serve or assist the man in any way. To further the argument that shaitan is not Allah's equal is the fact that he was left undestroyed. Shaitan is no threat to Allah in the least so therefore Allah had no reason to blink him out of existance, which He could have. Instead shaitan is still performing the will of Allah. He is no more than a tool, the fire that Allah uses to either forge mankind into the best of all creations spiritually, or it is the fire that will destroy us.

2) Shaitan was not an angel...period.

3) Allah was not afraid that mankind would know or do anything. Allah is the one that bestowed upon them intelligence, so why would He then stifle it?

4) Woman is not the root cause of all evil.....period. Neither is man for that matter and neither are we all cursed for their actions. Allah forgave them and that was that.

5) Shaitan is a mere tool. He is not a rival god. He is not the lord of hell and he has no dominion. His abilities are limited to suggesting the disobedience to Allah, and in this way to follow in his path. This is why Allah warns people in Quran not to follow the foosteps of shaitan.

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I had read the story, but it is so much better to hear it from the point of view of a believer. Thanks.

fullyveiled muslimah said:

That is the islamic version and I like it better because it does not mischaracterize humans into these evil things full of sin.

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Yeah, that is the most unfortunate aspect of traditional Christianity, imo. This belief in our utter fallenness. We are imperfect, yes. Sinners, yes. But we are Children of God, created by the Divine. All this wallowing in imagined depravity was an excuse to not have to live up to our full potential imo.

Yeah, that is the most unfortunate aspect of traditional Christianity, imo. This belief in our utter fallenness. We are imperfect, yes. Sinners, yes. But we are Children of God, created by the Divine. All this wallowing in imagined depravity was an excuse to not have to live up to our full potential imo.

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Right! Big excuses for not being "able" to do what Allah says to do, when in fact the orders of Allah aren't all that difficult. So then you say well God wants us to be perfect, and we can't do that...which is utter nonsense. Allah does not want perfection because He did not create us to be perfect. Allah only wants us to make the effort to obey Him, not attempt what we cannot do or do things outside of our capacity.

lilithu said:

Nothing.

The "Fall" was inevitable. It was necessary for humanity to grow up - to take responsibility for our own destiny.

I don't believe that God was mad, despite what the scriptures say, and I don't believe that God tossed them out of Eden out of spite. Rather, the loss of Eden was also inevitable. A&E learned the difference between good and evil and were no longer innocent. Eden was a state of innocence, where everything was simply handed to them. With their new-found knowledge they simply could not stay in that state. They had to work for their own beings. They may have perceived it as a punishment but God was merely facilitating what had to be.

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Why couldn't Adam and Eve grow without eating from the tree? Being in a state of innocence doesn't imply an inability to grow does it?

Tangnefedd said:

Of course I don't believe the Adam and Eve story to be more than a myth, but just supposing it was true, what on earth did the pair do wrong? They used their God given intelligence to find out more about the world around them, good for them. If God had wanted obedient puppets then he shouldn't have created them with curiousity!

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One thought occurs to me: before they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were puppets.

Without knowledge of good and evil, is any action truly sinful? I know the Catholic Church says that "full knowledge" is one of the prerequisites for something to be a mortal sin... I'd be interested in other denominations' take on the matter.

Victor said:

Why couldn't Adam and Eve grow without eating from the tree? Being in a state of innocence doesn't imply an inability to grow does it?

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Because in theory they would understand that they should not disobey Allah, but not in practice. Allah knows that mankind often needs experience to be the teacher, rather than just admonitions and words. By creating the circumstances whereby Adam would in effect disobey Allah, Allah ensured that Adam would understand the choice through experience and not just cuz Allah said. So proper growth of character could not have come through total obedience. One must falter and then succeed as katz said, in order to truly understand.

A little tidbit I learned is that Allah actually wants us to disobey some of these orders because He likes it if we learn from them practically the mistake in not doing things the way He laid them out. This in turn induces us to seek His guidance which He is obliged to give and in turn we grow spiritually. It is a very well laid out plan if I must say so myself.

Darkness said:

But what if God was wrong in restricting them from advancing their knowledge? Blah, this is pointless! Not even a tiny part of you will question God, no matter what we bring up.

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True. One I was younger I questioned many things about God and found satisfactory answers to a lot of my questions. There are still things we humans may not fully understand but I have found the Lord to be good and gracious and fair and I trust him in all things. As James says:


James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Tangnefedd said:

I must admit I find it hard to understand how anyone can view the creation story and much of the early part of the Bible as historically correct. I don't think many Christians believe that to be so these days, I know my Anglican Priest daughter doesn't believe it to be more than an allegory. If it is historically correct then God is not a deity worth worshipping imo!

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Jesus knew it to be true, and according to the Bible he was there for the creation, the world was created by him and for him, and he gave Adam and Eve as an example of the institution of marriage, and his lineage is traced back to Adam in the NT. I believe the whole Bible is the Word of God who cannot lie. Romans says that by the disobedience of one man, Adam, many were made sinners, but by the obedience of one man, Jesus Christ, many are made rigbteous. This is the central theme to the Bible, the fall of man and the redemtion through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Katzpur said:

That's all very well and good, Mike, but you didn't answer the question jonny asked. Genesis 3:22 states: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever..." Could you please just explain who you believe the LORD God to have been referring to in the words I've put in boldface?

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I did answer that specific question in my answer you quoted:

but my brief answer is as the Bible states many times there is only one God and no other, none besides, none before, no not one, that this verse refers to the 3 persons of whom God is made up, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believe at creation they were present, as the Holy Spirit of God brooded over the face of the earth, and God said, "let there be..." i.e. the Word, Jesus, who was with God and was God. I believe that Jesus was always with God and was God...

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joeboonda said:

Jesus knew it to be true, and according to the Bible he was there for the creation, the world was created by him and for him, and he gave Adam and Eve as an example of the institution of marriage, and his lineage is traced back to Adam in the NT.

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The passage that gives that lineage also states that Adam is a Son of God. Is he?