Baptism?

Baptism and baptize come from the Greek root bapto which means to dip, or Baptizo, which means to immerse.

just a thought, but when did that meaning change in christianity or even catholicism?

madhatter85 said:

Baptism and baptize come from the Greek root bapto which means to dip, or Baptizo, which means to immerse.

just a thought, but when did that meaning change in christianity or even catholicism?

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I don't know but it doesn't surprise me that the word meaning changed. The meaning of words seem to change all the time.

I had some bapto with my chips the other night.

madhatter85 said:

Baptism and baptize come from the Greek root bapto which means to dip, or Baptizo, which means to immerse.

just a thought, but when did that meaning change in christianity or even catholicism?

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I'd say pretty early... most likely when the Roman Church stopped using Greek and went to Latin only did the baptizo only retain it's ritual meaning (to cleanse). The Eastern Church, who used Greek from the first century till now still immerses.

angellous_evangellous said:

The Eastern Church, who used Greek from the first century till now still immerses.

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Does the Eastern Church baptize exclusively by immersion?

Baptism still means to immerse. Just because man tries to change how God wants things done, doesn't mean that he honors it.

A few other ways man has tried to change baptism

Sprinkling
Infants
For the dead
Pray Jesus into your hear FIRST

But just like Naaman (II Kings 5), we want to tell God how things should be done. It's a test of our humility really. It doesn't make any sense and we really don't understand it, but still God has asked us to do it.

I would prefer immersion myself, but as baptism is a symbol then I don't really think it matters if one would sprinkle. Just my view on things.

and why does immersion mean water?

John did baptism in water.

Jesus does baptism in the Holy Ghost.

Read it.

rocka21 said:

and why does immersion mean water?

John did baptism in water.

Jesus does baptism in the Holy Ghost.

Read it.

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And, for those who are overly literal, in fire.

I'm surprised that there aren't more Fundamentalists who take that passage literally, though I'm glad they exercise a bit of common sense in that regard.

Katzpur said:

Does the Eastern Church baptize exclusively by immersion?

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Yep.

....

Katzpur said:

Does the Eastern Church baptize exclusively by immersion?

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Yes, except in extremis. It is theoretically possible to be baptised by pouring in certain circumstances (such as being too ill to be baptised by immersion - something which very occasionally happens with very sick infants) but the canons call for baptism by triple immersion, whether the one baptised is an infant or an adult and, whilst I'm aware that pouring is theoretically allowed under these strict circumstances (bending the canons out of mercy for human weakness is something we call economia), I've never come across anyone who wasn't baptised by triple immersion in our church. In fact, the post-Schism Latin practice of pouring as the norm rather than as a rare exception is one of the innovations that our Church has criticised the RCC for for many centuries.

James

9-10ths_Penguin said:

And, for those who are overly literal, in fire.

I'm surprised that there aren't more Fundamentalists who take that passage literally, though I'm glad they exercise a bit of common sense in that regard.

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Jeremiah 20:9
Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.



1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


I see, two bapizms here. Once in John , then in Jesus.

I also see, Laying on of hands, THEN the Holy Ghost filled them, then they spake with tongues ( now, why would they start speaking other languages here?) and then they prophesied.

whenever you see people getting filled with the Spirit in the bible , you will see tougues right after. It is a bapitsm.

rocka21 said:

and why does immersion mean water?

John did baptism in water.

Jesus does baptism in the Holy Ghost.

Read it.

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It's a baptism WITH the Holy Spirit.

John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." 4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." NIV

Acts 8:34 The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?" 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea. NIV

When you are baptized with water you receive the GIFT that is the Holy Spirit.



Acts 2:37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." NIV

Scuba Pete said:

It's a baptism WITH the Holy Spirit.

John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." 4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." NIV

Acts 8:34 The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?" 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea. NIV

When you are baptized with water you receive the GIFT that is the Holy Spirit.



Acts 2:37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." NIV

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classic baptist teaching.


if this is true , why in Acts 19 did they not have the holy Spirit even thou they were baptized?

it was not until Paul laid his hands on them and they showed the sign ( tounges) that they were filled.

rocka21 said:

classic baptist teaching.

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You keep assuming things about me that aren't true! Baptists actually teach that you can pray Jesus into your heart! That's not me since you can't find it in the scriptures.

rocka21 said:

if this is true , why in Acts 19 did they not have the holy Spirit even thou they were baptized?

it was not until Paul laid his hands on them and they showed the sign ( tounges) that they were filled.

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Your confusion comes from not understanding the Spirit and it's role in our lives vs the Laying on of Hands by an apostle. Let's LOOK at the scripture, shall we?

Acts 19:1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.
4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all. NIV

Now, when you are baptized you receive the stamp that is the Spirit of God. This is internal. These disciples HAD that when Paul laid his hands on them. Then the Spirit came upon them for a special gift: they were able to speak in Tongues and so were able to spread the news to others in a unique way.


But notice how "John's Baptism" wasn't good enough: it had to come from FAITH in Jesus. After all, they WERE baptized were they not?

You can pray to Heavenly Father (not Jesus, we pray to Heavenly Father in Jesus's name) in your heart, Silent prayer, our Heavenly Father knows the intent of our hearts, he knows what we are feeling and he knows what we know. why wouldn't you be able to pray to him at any time at any place?

madhatter85 said:

You can pray to Heavenly Father (not Jesus, we pray to Heavenly Father in Jesus's name) in your heart, Silent prayer, our Heavenly Father knows the intent of our hearts, he knows what we are feeling and he knows what we know. why wouldn't you be able to pray to him at any time at any place?

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Pray to God any time you want... but there is nowhere in scripture where we are told to "pray Jesus into our Hearts". Unless of course, you can provide us with a scripture that tells us differently.

Scuba Pete said:

Pray to God any time you want... but there is nowhere in scripture where we are told to "pray Jesus into our Hearts". Unless of course, you can provide us with a scripture that tells us differently.

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Nowhere in scripture does it even say to pray to Jesus at all. Even Jesus prayed to his Father in Heaven. and told people to pray to the Father on his name.

madhatter85 said:

Nowhere in scripture does it even say to pray to Jesus at all. Even Jesus prayed to his Father in Heaven. and told people to pray to the Father on his name.

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He's saying "into", not "to".

You keep assuming things about me that aren't true! Baptists actually teach that you can pray Jesus into your heart! That's not me since you can't find it in the scriptures.

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J/K. i like to mess with the baptist. I do not assume what you are. sorry.

they were able to speak in Tongues and so were able to spread the news to others in a unique way.

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and you get this from where?

so i take it, you believe this gift passed away?

and you believe EVERY time you see tongues in the new testament is was " languages"?