The Rapture a Glorious Event

Sola'lor said:

I agree with you that the story i realted probably wont happen. It's one of those third person things. My Co-worker told it to me and he heard it from some who heard it from someone, etc., etc.

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It's not how things opperate in reality.. People need homes, jobs, transportation, education, food, etc . etc. etc. The logistics of everyone moving to Missouri should be a clue to anyone that this will never happen...

My question is do you believe any type of gathering of the Saints will happen before the second coming? Even in Salt Lake?

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If you were to sit here where I am now you would see a city that literally went up in about 5 years. Nothing was here but a bunch of corn fields and tralor trash communities, now there are brand new homes and a thriving community with one temple under construction, which I pass every day on my way to work and another will break ground very soon, just down the street from where I am now at work...half a million dollar homes all around here..

This is the New Jerusalem as good as it's gonna get before Christ comes...

Also why don't you think there will be any snow when the Earth becomes a Paradise?

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Because in a Terrestrial world there is no hot or cold, everything is the right temperature, there is no pain, no suuffering, no sorrow, no disease. Winter was not a part of the Garden of Eden or before the flood of Noah, in my opinion, until the earth was tilted on it's axis at the time of the flood when the continents broke apart..

Just can see it in my mind for some reason...

I have had dreams that if I didn't go up soon I will not be able to...

It's a weird nightmare/dream...

I really luv to ski but have neglected to do so for quite a number of years and feel like I should again before it's too late....

Everytime I pass the new Oquirre Mountain temple they are constucting I think of the Nauvoo temple, because it sits on a hill, overlooking South Jordan, a beatiful city, in my opinion, as was Nauvoo...

This temple is literally off the same street where I live, just up the street 16 blocks/two miles and will overlook the Salt Lake and surrounding cities to the north as far as Salt Lake and to the south as far as, well as far as you can see past the Point of the Mountain into Alpine/American Fork area, but that's really blocked by the Point of the Mountain......

A beacon of light for sure, which Jordan River temple is also.

Commercial jet pilots literally use it (Jordan River temples) as a point of reference when approaching the Salt Lake international airport. Planes fly over where I live constantly, Jordan River temple being just two miles in the other direction...

Now there will be a temple on the Herriman/Riverton border. I work in Herriman, just above the Riverton border and a huge corn field, which the church owns, for their welfare program, still grows corn, masses of it, the guy who runs it just came into the biz where I work and for some reason I asked him what he did and he said he runs the huge corn field next to us.

So there are houses upon houses and still the church hangs onto this huge corn field We obviously still need it...so it will never be sold...

Logistics, that's all I am trying to point out..

If everyone moves to Missourit, who will be here to do all the temple work that needs to continue and why would the church be building new temples here and not more in Missouri, if we were all going to be moving there..

Count the temples.

Salt Lake (Early 1900's, can't remember the year)
South Jordan (70's)
Oquirre Mountain (under construction will be complete in 2009)
Draper (Newly constructed last year)
Riverton/Herriman border temple (no ground breaking ceremony yet, not sure when it's scheduled)

Don't forget Ogden and Bountiful temples (gorgeous) and Timpanogas temple in American Fork (gorgeous) and of course the Provo temple...

This is a wake up call to reality...

No mass exodus/move to Missouri will ever happen. The time for that commandment to be fulfilled is over, God's plans changed, because of envy and strife, amongst the saints, in those days....

I need to bring up this scripture in the D and C....

So from where I live there is a temple (South Jordan/Oquirre Mountain temple) two miles to the east of me (under construction) and the Jordan River temple two miles to the northwest of where I live and a high high concentration of LDS ward buildings. I counted the amount per 2 square miles in another thread and it was like 20. A very very high amount of LDS churches here. My stake building is literally across the street...

If this is not Zion/the New Jerusalem on earth, then I don't know what is...

Why look for it somewhere else, like in Missouri, when it's right in front of you...

I pass three LDS ward buildings and one temple under construction on my way to work and the three ward buildings were not there just 4 years ago. It's all brand new stuff, popping up fast.

Either the population growth has exponentially increased or people are coming here from other states and around the world.

This is a gathering place for the world too..

In the biz where I work I have spoken to a young Jewish couple straight from Jerusalem, an Australian young man comes in who is staying here for three months and loves it here, New Yorkers, Californians, etc. have all moved here. I worked with a guy here who came here after 9/11 from the bronx...is that the right spelling...

I have worked with Russians and Russian Jews (one wore the star of david on a chain on his neck, hidden under his shirt and I noticed it and asked), Armenians, and an Egyptian...

The world is curious about this place...

Yes I agree with you about the logistics. I don't believe EVRY one of the 12+ millions church members will be required to go to New Jerusalem. I think it will be more of a calling from the church. I'm sure most of the people who go there will be construction workers. That is where they will get their job and money to buy food and housing. Also the 144,000 will be gathered in Adam-ondi-Ahman. Adam-Ondi Ahamn is near Jackson County missouri, near where the Garden of Eden was.

Here some scriptures I found. Take them for what you will.


D&C 84
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

D&C 124
51 Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a ahouse unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God.

Zion entertainment break.

The Osmonds - Love Me For A Reason

Sola'lor said:

Here some scriptures I found. Take them for what you will.


D&C 84
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

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Right and notice the Lord says "beginning" and "in this generation"...

That commandment and that prophecy is null and void now, because the saints did not keep their end of the bargain. I just got a burning in my heart about this as I was typing. I know what I say is true. I've been through the Doctrine and Covenants enough times that the spirit began to deal with me in this way...

That generation came and went and nothing happened. The Lord revoked this commandment...

No one ever reads that part. There is a scripture that goes along with this but would take some time to bring it up again. Will look for it though and post it when I come across it again..

Reading scriptures over and over or just listening to them, as I have done over and over and over again in my car and at home on tape and on CD brings these things alive and cuts through all the garbage that is out there. Nonsensical speculation is all it is...

It's a "dead" scripture... The commandment was given then revoked and the saints pushed out of Missouri then Nauvoo where they finally were allowed to settle here in Salt Lake ant the surrounding areas.

THIS IS ZION/THE NEW JERUSALEM NOW...

Isaiah 2: 3
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

D&C 124
51 Therefore, for this cause have I accepted the offerings of those whom I commanded to build up a city and a a house unto my name, in Jackson county, Missouri, and were hindered by their enemies, saith the Lord your God.

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The Cummunity of Christ church (formerly RLDS church) is now in possession of this temple lot, where Zion was to be built...

No way Zion will ever be built starting at that temple lot now...

We are very very close to the end already, of this Christ has personally testified to me with his spirit, to the point in which I balled my head off uncontrollably about a year ago when I was struggling financially in my life, due to a motorcycle accident that left me unable to work.

I started to not eat in order to save money on food and fasted for nearly 3 days one time and that's when I felt Christ near and his spirit testified to me he was coming very very soon...

I could not control my sobbing for about an hour or two. The spirit came over me so strongly, while watching an LDS produced DVD where Jesus raised Lazerus from the dead.

For some reason this video touched me very very strongly and it was like a type and shadow of the first resurrection when we will be raised from our mortal/dead state into life eternal with Christ on this newly renewed earth and then later when it is Celestialized...

This earth will be paradise and the Celestial kingdom.

WE WONT NEED TO MOVE AT ALL, even into the eterniites..

I look at the yard in back of where we live and it's the largest yard in this South Jordan area for some reason. It's a blessing to just have a little space with the elders quorum president living next door and the bishop up the street who went to the same mission I did. This is a great area, a humble Zion to me and to many many many others who live in this area...

I lived on the east side all my life, up until just a few years ago when we moved here. We literally crossed the river Jordon, with modern m paved roads of course, and are just on the other side of it now, it (the Jordan River)is just a few feet from where we live

It connects the Great Salt Lake (Dead Sea) with Utah lake (Sea of Galilee), just like in Jerusalem. This is the New Jerusalem. This area from Provo to Salt lake and beyond...

The geography/topography testifies of this..

FFH said:

No way Zion will ever be built starting at that temple lot now...

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You don't have a lot of faith that the Lord can do what He wants no matter the circumstances, do you?

This section of the Doctrine and Covenants explains why the saints were cast out of Missouri.

It was all the work of the Lord because of their transgressions. They "polluted their inheritance," which was Jackson County, Missouri. The Lord gave it to them then he took it away by the hand of their enemies..

Here it is, read the entire section, and the whol Doctrine and Covnenants, for that matter, so you can get a better overall picture/view of what really happened...

Doctrine and Covenants 101

The time to build up Zion, starting from Jackson County, Missouri was then, but they blew it, so it no longer became "expedient" for them to do so there, instead we were driven into the desert as Moses led the Israelites into the desert and wandered for 40 years..

Quails were also sent to the saints who were fleeing from their enemies as they traveled west, Brigham Young as their leader, a modern day Moses..

beckysoup61 said:

You don't have a lot of faith that the Lord can do what He wants no matter the circumstances, do you?

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It has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with what scriptues say concerning this and the last days..

Of course the Lord could take that lot from the Community of Christ church and give it to the LDS church if he wanted to, but we were not worthy of it, so he gave it to another and sent us to live in a dessert... That's why I say there is no getting it/turning back now.

Edit: You would have to pry their blue fingers off that land and practically steal it from the Community of Christ church and that just is not going to happen until Christ comes and deals with our enemies personally...

It's okay though I enjoy it here, much more than I would have enjoyed living in Missouri I think..

I would rather live in the shadow of the Rocky mountains than to live amongst the vast plains and rolling hills of Missouri..

Too boring for me...

Ok here we go. Straight from the Church's website:

Zion

The word Zion has various meanings in the scriptures. The most general definition of the word is "the pure in heart" (D&C 97:21). Zion is often used in this way to refer to the Lord's people or to the Church and its stakes (see D&C 82:14). It has also been used to refer to specific geographical locations.


The word Zion appears repeatedly in all the books of scripture of the Church. In latter-day revelation, Zion is defined as "the pure in heart" (D&C 97:21).
In the early days of this dispensation, Church leaders counseled members to build up Zion by emigrating to a central location. Today our leaders counsel us to build up Zion wherever we live. Members of the Church are asked to remain in their native lands and help establish the Church there. Many temples are being built so Latter-day Saints throughout the world can receive temple blessings.
The word Zion can also refer to specific geographic locations, as follows:
The city of Enoch (see Moses 7:18–21).
The ancient city of Jerusalem (see 2 Samuel 5:6–7; 1 Kings 8:1; 2 Kings 9:28).
The New Jerusalem, which will be built in Jackson County, Missouri (see D&C 45:66–67; 57:1–3; Articles of Faith 1:10).
—See True to the Faith (2004), 189–90

So obviously it is Church doctrine that New Jerusalem will stil be built in Jackson County. It also says the same thing in the True to the Faith Reference. And I know that everything contained in th True to the Faith book is official Church Doctrine.

FFH said:

I would rather live in the shadow of the Rocky mountains than to live amongst the vast plains and roling hills of Missouri..

Too boring for me...

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Amen to that Brother. I'm an Idaho man myself.

You can focus on this prophecy, which is no longer valid, at least not until Christ returns, and takes that area back for himself...

The New Jerusalem, which will be built in Jackson County, Missouri (see D&C 45:66–67; 57:1–3; Articles of Faith 1:10).

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...or you can choose to focus on this sound teaching, based on the current realities of this life...

Sola said:

Members of the Church are asked to remain in their native lands and help establish the Church there

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The New Jerusalem (city built by God) will come down out of heaven and occupy a large portion of North America...

The dimmensions of the New Jerusalem are 1600 miles wide and 1600 miles long, with twelve gates, four on each side, for the twelve tribes of isreal, who will be miraculously gathered in during the first resurrection to meet the Lord and the city of Enoch in the air in order to later descend with them and this great city, the New Jerusalem, onto a completely renewed earth..

God has built mansions in heaven for us to live in and they will be a part of this New Jerusalem...

The realities of heaven are only a few short years away when we will all live in the New Jerusalem on this earth, a city built by God.

God will destroy this earthly New Jerusalem, and will replace it with his own, built by him personally, with all our individual manions already built to our personal specifications and/or likes...

I have read and seen NDE's (Near Death Experiences) describing this event to come, and what awaits us in the New Jerusalem. Many mansions, taylored to fit our particular likes and dislikes...

A glorious city of gold, pearl and all other precious metals, stones and jewels...

This earth/life is nothing compared to what it will be like to live in a city built by God..

We are doing the best we can to build up zion, but those who oppose us are in our midst for sure, even here I work, with so many being "of the world" who try to steal from me every day..

I can't leave anything unattended...nothing...

Sola'lor said:

Amen to that Brother. I'm an Idaho man myself.

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Cool, my grandparents lived in Idaho Falls and used to visit there often as a kid...

These are heavenly places, in my opinion, for now..

FFH said:

The New Jerusalem (city built by God) will come down out of heaven and occupy a large portion of North America...

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This is actually the City of Enoch that will decend from heaven and make up half of the New Jerusalem.

The dimmensions of the New Jerusalem are 1600 miles wide and 1600 miles long, with twelve gates, four on each side, for the twelve tribes of isreal, who will be miraculously gathered in during the first resurrection to meet the Lord and the city of Enoch in the air in order to later descend with them and this great city, the New Jerusalem, onto a completely renewed earth..

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From what I have read This large City is not the City of New Jerusalem but the City where God dwells. God will only dwell on this Earth after it is Celestialized after the Final Judgement. Christ will dwell on the Earth during the Millenium.

The realities of heaven are only a few short years away when we will all live in the New Jerusalem on this earth, a city built by God.

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This leads me to a question I've been dying to ask you. When do you think the Saviour will return? I'm sure you have some guess. I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.

I have read and seen NDE's (Near Death Experiences) describing this event to come, and what awaits us in the New Jerusalem. Many mansions, taylored to fit our particular likes and dislikes...

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Yes NDE's are very interesting but they are not Doctrine.

We are doing the best we can to build up zion, but those who oppose us are in our midst for sure, even here I work with so many who are "of the world" and who try to steal from me every day..

I can't leave anything unattended...nothing...

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True, unfortunatly that is the way of this telestial world.

There will be a supernatural gathering on this continent, when the New Jerusalem descends out of heaven, and is established on the North American contient..

Article of Faith 10
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

Sola said:

This is actually the City of Enoch that will decend from heaven and make up half of the New Jerusalem.

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Right, absolutely, I agree, this is absolutely in scriptures....

Along with Christ, we will also meet the people of the city of Enoch...

FFH said:

Right, absolutely, I agree, this is absolutely in scriptures....

Along with Christ, we will also meet the people of the city of Enoch...

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Yes, I was just reading that in Moses chapter 7.

I would like to make an observation.

Article of Faith 10
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent;that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewedand receive its paradisiacal glory.

I notice this says that the New Jerusalem will be built upon the American continent. Not decended or stuff like that.

Just an observation.

The internet connection cut out on me at work so couldn't post any more until I got home..

The New Jerusalem has been built and I'm living in it. The Jordan River runs just 3 houses down from me, which connects a fresh water lake with a salt lake, just as the sea of Galilee is connected to the Dead Sea by the Jordan River in Jerusalem. Is that not a sign enough that this is the New Jerusalem ????

I'm living in it, so yeah, the New Jerusalem has been built on the American Continent. When Joseph Smith wrote the Articles of faith nothing had happened yet and he wrote that just months before he died, so the New Jerusalem or Zion had not been established yet, which it definitely has now...

I am living in the midst of it as is Katzpur and I believe Nutshell lives here to...

That part has been fulfilled and the next step is for Christ to accept our sacrifices here on earth and create a new heaven and a new earth and a New Jerusalem. I won't matter how much we've done here because it's all in vain. "All is vanity under the sun"...

God will make all things new again. With God nothing is ever permanently broken...

Sola'lor said:

This is actually the City of Enoch that will decend from heaven and make up half of the New Jerusalem.

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Again I completely agree, you know this part of scriptures well, most don't even know this or understand it..

From what I have read This large City is not the City of New Jerusalem but the City where God dwells. God will only dwell on this Earth after it is Celestialized after the Final Judgement. Christ will dwell on the Earth during the Millenium.

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Revelation tells us that this is the New Jerusalem which will descend out of heaven with Christ, when he establishes his kingdom on earth and will rule and reign from this glorious city. This is in Revelation.

The whole earth will be a Urim and Thummim and there will be no need for a walled city like the New Jerusalem. Only the most righteous people will remain on this earth at that time, the Terrestrial people/bodies will have to leave and inherit another Terrestrial world when the earth is Celestialized.

This leads me to a question I've been dying to ask you. When do you think the Saviour will return? I'm sure you have some guess. I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours.

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Calculations based on Daniel's prophecy of the end times put the final seven years Daniel spoke of starting with the year 2006. This is confirmed by several Bible codes as August 3, 2006 as the opening of the sixth seal or the start of the final 7 years.

Bible codes tell us that the shofur started blowing on August 3, 2006, calling all the elect our from the four corners of the earth to gather in preperation for Christ's coming..

Not a literal gathering but a spiritual gathering..

The shofur stips blowing in the BIble code in the year 2010, the same year that Daniel prophesied would be the time when the saints would be caught up into heaven...

Daniel prophesied that the saints would be caught up in the middle of this final 7 year period and we can calculate the start of the final 7 year period by looking at Daniel's prophecy, which again puts us at the year 2006 in Auguest and the "catching away of the saints in early 2010, when the shofur stops blowing in the Bible codes, because the gathering is finished and we are present with the Lord.

Okay that's the best I can do as far as explaining this for now. I am tired, will rest and post later on this in more detail...and will try to make more sense, just am very very tired right now..

Yes NDE's are very interesting but they are not Doctrine.

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They are a window into the next life and a very very valid source of info concerning things in the hereafter...