Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

d.n.irvin said:

[FONT=&quot]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]

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sojourner said:

This seems awfully funny coming from one who insists that we must worship on the 7th day. Which is it going to be? a literal keeping of the Law, or loving God and neighbor???

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Paul says,

For All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God [and] By the law is the knowledge of sin [For] The wages of sin is death.
[Therefore] God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law(10 Commands) might be fulfilled(completed, accomplished) in us.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law(10 Commands) Therefore love is the fulfilling(completing) of the law.

[So] What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid Romans 3,6,8, &13

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[FONT=&quot]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]

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First of all, I don't insist anything. God clearly states in the Bible, that if you Love Him you will keep His commandments.

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Christians follow Christ's example and walk in the light that has been given to them. Did Christ kept 9 or 10 commandments?

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It is because we LOVE Him, LOVE that we keep his commands- all 10

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BTW: Are you familiar with the term Protestant?

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sojourner said:

God also clearly states that the keeping of the Law is secondary to loving one's neighbor. See the story of the good Samaritan. The priest and the Levite were "keeping the Law" by passing by the man. The Samaritan broke the Law by touching the man. Yet, which one did Christ applaud???

Christ did not applaud the Samaritan because he broke the law. To my knowledge the Samaritans were not Jews- so they wouldn't be bound by Jewish Law in touching him - the point- is that they were following the "Law of letter" not practicing the "Law of Love" - of which Christ gave many parables. Christ nor the Apostles in no way infer in scripture, taught or practiced Sabbath breaking. Remember the Pharisees and Sadducee's made up their own rules about the Sabbath, that Christ being Lord of the Sabbath, never intended - Like Sunday worship today.

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Read Luke 13:10-17. Jesus obviously violated the Sabbath in the name of Love. Therefore, we can too, in the name of love.
If that is true -your calling God a liar - I have kept my Father's commandments John 15:10 God cannot lie or break rules in the name of LOVE- it is Love that motivates us to keep his word - We Love Christ because He first loved us.

Paul was talking about more than just the decalogue. Paul was talking about the Levitican Law. Do you keep all the out of love for Christ? (BTW, you've never answered that question...)
If that is true - your calling Paul a liar - What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31, 6:15

-What Law do you think He talking about?
-Why would Paul be talking about establishing the Levitican Law?
-To what is he asking God to Forbid?


Protestants worship on Sunday. Catholics worship on Sunday. Mormons worship on Sunday. Orthodox worship on Sunday. Anglicans worship on Sunday. Most of us worship on Sunday. What's your point? That everyone but you is wrong? I'm in church every single Sunday, unless I'm sick. I see Jesus there every week, waiting for me at the Table. Would Jesus be there if Sunday were the wrong day to worship?

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d.n.irvin said:

Remember the Pharisees and Sadducee's made up their own rules about the Sabbath, that Christ being Lord of the Sabbath, never intended - Like Sunday worship today.

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Christ did not applaud the Samaritan because he broke the law. To my knowledge the Samaritans were not Jews- so they wouldn't be bound by Jewish Law in touching him

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the point- is that they were following the "Law of letter" not practicing the "Law of Love" - of which Christ gave many parables.

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Christ nor the Apostles in no way infer in scripture, taught or practiced Sabbath breaking.

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Read Luke 13:10-17. Jesus obviously violated the Sabbath in the name of Love. Therefore, we can too, in the name of love.
If that is true -your calling God a liar - I have kept my Father's commandments John 15:10 God cannot lie or break rules in the name of LOVE- it is Love that motivates us to keep his word - We Love Christ because He first loved us.

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If that is true - your calling Paul a liar - What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31, 6:15

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-What Law do you think He talking about?
-Why would Paul be talking about establishing the Levitican Law?
-To what is he asking God to Forbid?

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They Shouldn't . the fact that Christians use these texts of scripture to validate or sanction Sabbath breaking is evidence of itself that- Satan through the papacy has "deceived the whole world".

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Again, God has "sheep in many folds" but the Bible states He is only coming back for one group

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sojourner said:

It would have been illegal for the Samaritan (who was unclean) to touch the Jew (who was clean).

You also practice the "Law of letter" by insisting that we worship on Saturday.
I keep the 10 Commandment Law of Love which happens to incorporate the Seventh-Day Sabbath as the day God Sanctioned and made Holy- I was no where when God cerated the world.

Christ worked on the Sabbath by healing, and allowed his disciples to work by picking grain.
Jesus showed time and again by his actions and words- that he being, "LORD OF THE SABBATH" was incapable of Sabbath breaking -and that he was NOT doing work on the Sabbath. He was only doing "work" on the Sabbath - according to their (interpretation) their made up standards - "doctrines of men".

Then what was Jesus doing? Work on the Sabbath was verboten by the Law. Jesus worked on the Sabbath by healing the woman.
Christ came to seek and to save the lost and that included doing his fathers will on the Sabbath. Does not the Minister get paid for his work on the Sabbath?
Jesus broke the Sabbath Law by loving the woman enough to heal her. Who's calling a God a liar?
Only by your misunderstanding of the scriptures

You're twisting the meaning of that scripture by your interpretation of it. Look at vs. 21: "But now a righteousness from God apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify." Then vs. 31: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." Here Paul is saying exactly what I'm saying: That Christ fulfills the Law, and if we follow Christ in faith, the Law is, for our puropses, satisfied. We need not follow the letter of the Law (as you say.) We follow the spirit of the Law, which is love of God and neighbor. Sunday worship has to do with love of God (and neighbor). Big deal!
I'm not twisting anything-You can not simplify an equation by subtraction - that is

-[FONT=&quot]For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot] "All the Law" includes the 4th Commandment -[/FONT]Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Nothing is taken away.
Paul was talking about the Levitican Law. Paul said that our righteousness was now found apart from the Law, because Christ had fulfilled it. Paul was talking about Levitican Law, because that's what the religious Law was -- Levitican Law. Paul said "God forbid" that our faith nullifies the Law (as you maintain it does).
Again when you compare scripture with scripture, as the Bible teaches ( the lens I look through) Paul is NOT saying that at all,

Paul says,

For All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God [and] By the law is the knowledge of sin [For] The wages of sin is death.
[Therefore] God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law(10 Commands) might be fulfilled(completed, accomplished) in us.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law(10 Commands) Therefore love is the fulfilling(completing) of the law.

[So] What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid Romans 3,6,8, &13

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I have adequately shown that Sunday worship preceeded the Papacy, yet you choose to ignore that.
Please tell me where to find those posts
Hmm. John 10. Actually, Christ never states there that he will come back for only one group. He says in verse 16, "Yet I have sheep from another fold, and I must lead them too. They'll recognize my voice, and there'll be one flock, one shepherd." This is vastly different from "coming back for only one group." This says that both groups (widely thought to refer to Jews and Gentiles) will become one flock (Xy.)
? The key word here is " one " - One people that "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus"

[FONT=&quot]To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them[/FONT]

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Your interpretation -- and it is an interpretation -- is abysmal.
I don't have an interpretation!
Scripture speaks for itself- Christians follow Christ - Protestants protest the teachings of the papacy. Sunday worship is a teaching of the papacy - I've presented many posts giving undeniable proof of the Bible warning of this, (1260 prophecy etc.) and Papal proof by their own admission - Not one word came from me - or my own opinions or interpretations.
It came from Bible study
However, if you think you're "doing better" by worshiping on Saturday, then by all means have at it!
Maybe we think we're "doing better" by worshiping on Sunday.

[FONT=&quot]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.[/FONT]

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How can I have an opinion of 1=1=2? Thats what it is- a universal rule- whether or not I believe that 1+1=2 makes no difference - it is an unchanging Law. Likewise, the Bible states that Gods 10 Commandment Law is an unchanging Law - no matter what I think I have no opinion. No matter how I simplify it it does not change.

(BTW, the celebration of Eucharist, which was not done by the Jews, but is done by Christians, via Christ's command, was not what was referred to in Levitican Law. It is a brand new worship practice, insitituted by Christ and properly celebrated on Sunday, the day of Resurrection.)

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If you ask most Christians why they don't steal, kill or lie, they respond with the usual its contrary to the Word of God(Bible)?

However if you ask the same Christians why they don't keep the 4th commandment they can't give you one reason from the Bible why the 4th commandment is any different from the rest.


Who took away this commandment? Where can I find it in the Bible?

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d.n.irvin said:

POST #1
I


How many people still have doubts about "Why Christians only keep 9 out of the 10 Commandments"?

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Mestemia said:

LOL
Sadly, no one has proven that whether it is Sunday or Saturday that is the seventh day.
At least not in this thread anyway.
Nor in any of the links presented in this thread.
However, it is extremely amusing how many people think it has been proven.

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d.n.irvin said:

Are you Christian?

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Mestemia said:

Irrelevant.
The facts are the facts and the truth is truth.
The fact is that you have not proven which day is the seventh day.
The truth is that no one else has either.
At least not in this thread.

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d.n.irvin said:

And by what criteria, do you require as proof- that the current Seventh-day of the week Saturday - is the same Seventh-day Sabbath of the Bible?

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Mestemia said:

You have failed to correlate any the the current days of the week to be the first or seventh day as mentioned in the Bible.
Explain 'correlate'

Your whole argument is based upon an assumption over which day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, is the first day of the week.

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d.n.irvin said:

Explain 'correlate'

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d.n.irvin said:

What should the argument be based upon?

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Mestemia said:

You have not shown that Monday is the first day of the week. Business week?
It could just as well be Thursday or even Saturday.
The Bible refers tot he days as First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh,Correct, I agree

You have not shown how these line up with the current days of the week.
Conversely, you have not shown- that the NAMES of the days of the week that we currently use(Sun,M,T,W,Th,F,Sat) DO NOT correlate with the numbering of the days of the week.(1-7)

Your argument seems to be that because there are people who disagree with you as to which day of the week is the seventh day in which God rested that they are not keeping the fourth commandment. To clarify, my argument is simply this - If we all agree to use or adopt a numbering system to count our days - using a 7-day cycle -starting our count with 1 and ending with 7 - no matter what name you call the day - buy the Universal Law of "Addition" I can count - to be sure the days have not changed 1+1=2 Not to mention keeping a record of the cycle(calendar) 1+1+1+1+1+1+1= 7

The problem here is that you have made an assumption as to which day is the first day.
Just as they have made an assumption as to which day is the first day.
Their assumption is a different day than your assumption.
With all due respect the only one making assumptions here is you.
Your argument is based on the assumption -that you assume no one really knows what day it is, therefore, who can know what day is the seventh? But to assume that, we have to assume no one has ever kept a record of days.

Yet somehow you have justified to yourself that you are right and they are wrong.
First of all the Bible justifies Sabbath keeping , and says, "Remember" the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy, The Bible calls the NAME of the 7th day of the week "the Sabbath" or rest day. We call it Saturday- We could call it "Funday" - but would it change the order or number of the Day?

Something you have failed to see is that every one of your arguments is EQUALLY
valid for those who have chosen another day as their 'first day of the week.'
But what if we assume that EVERYONE has already proven and established that Sunday is indeed the first day of the week?(#1)
BTW: Science has established that the 7 day cycle has not changed since this world has been in existence

This is a clear indication that your whole premise, What day is the first day of the week, is based upon an assumption. The only clear indication that I get is that you don't know your days of the week. But we can test this assumption real quick;

"The next time you are scheduled to go to work on a Monday, don't go in - when they call to ask you why you didn't show up - tell them they "assume" that Monday is really the day you should come in - and that they haven't shown you that it really is the day

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Martin Luther (1483-1546) [founder of the Lutheran Church]
“nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist….For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny.” Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196-197

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John Calvin (1509-1564) [founder of the Presbyterian Church]
“I deny him to be the vicar of Christ, who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist--I deny him to be the successor of Peter..I deny him to be the head of the church.” “Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt…I shall briefly show that (Pauls words in 2 Thessalonians 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy” John Calvin, Tracts, Vol. 1, pp. 219,220. John Calvin, Institutes.

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John Wesley (1703-1791) [founder of the Methodist Church]
“He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers… He it is…that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped… claiming the highest power, and highest honor… claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone.” Albert Close, Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms, London: Thynne and Co., 1917, p. 110.

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