Monogenes -&- "I AM" issues:-

monogenes -&- "I AM" issue:-


<3439> monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'}
1) single of its kind, only
2) used of the only sons or daughters


This word just means “the ONLY” or “one of it’s kind”. & Indeed Jesus was “one-of-a-kind” prophet as he was born without father & his peculiar miracles.

“Begotten” is NOT original meaning of this word. Then why translators add the word “begotten” in some places while NOT in others :-

monogenhV<3439> {ONLY BEGOTTEN}John 1:18
monogenh<3439> {ONLY BEGOTTEN}John 3:16
monogenh<3439> {ONLY BEGOTTEN}Hebrews 11:17
monogenhV<3439> {ONLY}Luke 7:12
monogenhV<3439> {AN ONLY}Luke 8:42
monogenhV<3439> {AN ONLY CHILD}Luke 9:38


It’s like giving words NEW meanings. Like the word “GAY”originally ment “HAPPY” & full of laughter”. It was never was used for “homosexuals” in old(original) english. Then later ppl started using this word for homos & todays dictionaries r showing it to mean homos.

Similarly, in ORIGINAL english the word “CHOPPER” was a machine to “CHOP” meat etc. BUT later ppl saw a resemblance b/w blades of a chopper & blades of HELICOPTER so started calling HELICOPTER as CHOPPER.

Now that helicopter was a chopper:- They heard some power bikes sounding like a helicopter(now chopper) so they started calling these bikes as “CHOPPER”.

The word “comrade” just ment “friend/companion at work” BUT in NEOLOGY it was associated with “a member of communism group”, & todays dictionaries show this as meaning of this word.

So todays dictionaries show these meanings while they were NEVER actual meanings of these words. Similarly some dictionaries give the meaning of word “monogenes” as “When used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God”which is NOT actual meaning rather it describes what ppl think of this word.

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If just being born without father makes someone “son” of God then ADAM(pbuh) has more reason to be considered “son” of God because Adam was born without BOTH father & mother.


& if Jesus was the only true son then WHY God called Israel HIS firstborn???
EX:4:22“And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn”
Now you’d say “adopted”!!! where did God say that Israel was “ADOPTED”??? Do u call ur ADOPTED son as FIRST-born??? Do u use the word “BORN” for adopted child???

Even David himself declares that he was BEGOTTEN son:-
PS 2:7 I(David) will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten<03205> thee.
So there were at least TWO begotten sons, one David & other Jesus

Then howcome christians say Jesus was the ONLY begotten???
& in above verse the word "BEGOTTEN"(Yalad) is actually present in original language. So translators did not made this up like they inserted word "begotten" in John:1:18 & 3:16 etc.

yalad <03205>
Pronunciation:yaw-lad'Origin:a primitive rootReference:TWOT - 867PrtSpch:verbIn AV:beget 201, bare 110, born 79, bring forth 25, bear 23, travail 16, midwife 10, child 8, delivered 5, borne 3, birth 2, labour 2, brought up 2, misc 12Count:498Definition:1) to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to bear, bring forth
1a1a) of child birth

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Christians claim that "I AM" means "Jesus" in John:8:57-58, which is not true:-
If “I AM” here refers to GOD (of Moses):-
EX 3:14“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you”

Then it also refers to GOD(not Jesus) here:-
JN 8:57“Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
JN 8:58“Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily,I say unto you, Before Abraham was,I AM.”
Which means that before Abraham GOD was present & HE gave me(Jesus) knowledge of Abraham.

Jesus had two stations of existence, one as a man, born of a woman and He lived and died as any man does.

The other station is as a a Manifestation of God, unique in His direct knowledge of God--something totally beyond mankind.

The Spiritual Station of Christ was not however, unique. Other Manifestations of God had come before Him, and many will follow without end as it is God's means to reveal Himself to man.

Regards,
Scott

My point in OP was that word "BEGOTTEN" was never used for Jesus. rather the word used was "monogenes" which just means "ONE of a KIND" "SINGLE" "ONLY" & translators added the word "begotten" on their own to justify their pre-conceived concepts.

WHILE for David the word "BEGOTTEN"(Yalad) is ACTUALLY used. Then howcome christians declare Jesus as Begotten son ???


Also Christians call jesus as THE ONLY true son, while other "SONs" in bible r "ADOPTED" ......... i showed in OP that David was called FIRST-BORN, do christians call their "Adopted" sons as their "BORN" sons ???

benign6 said:

My point in OP was that word "BEGOTTEN" was never used for Jesus. rather the word used was "monogenes" which just means "ONE of a KIND" "SINGLE" "ONLY" & translators added the word "begotten" on their own to justify their pre-conceived concepts.

WHILE for David the word "BEGOTTEN"(Yalad) is ACTUALLY used. Then howcome christians declare Jesus as Begotten son ??? , , , ,

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They did it because that was the only way they could imagine to explain the phrase "Son of God". They were wrong of course, but they were taking their best shot.

Regards,
Scott

benign6 said:

If just being born without father makes someone “son” of God then ADAM(pbuh) has more reason to be considered “son” of God because Adam was born without BOTH father & mother.

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But Adam was made out of the dust (adamah). Israel is God's son through adoption - he chose Abraham and through him his descendents (until Jacob, or Israel). Jesus was the only child of God physically conceived - Mary literally conceived Jesus (while the Holy Ghost overshadowed her).

Then again, the OP lacks a definitely question of point of debate, so this may have nothing to do at all with what you were getting at.

Aqualung said:

But Adam was made out of the dust (adamah). Israel is God's son through adoption - he chose Abraham and through him his descendents (until Jacob, or Israel). Jesus was the only child of God physically conceived - Mary literally conceived Jesus (while the Holy Ghost overshadowed her).

Then again, the OP lacks a definitely question of point of debate, so this may have nothing to do at all with what you were getting at.

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So Jesus is the genetic child of God? God has gender, genes, DNA, semen, sperm?

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays said:

So Jesus is the genetic child of God? God has gender, genes, DNA, semen, sperm?

Regards,
Scott

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He at least had DNA, but I have no basis on which to answer your other questions. After all, "conception" is the pairing of chromosomes. The writers were very specific in this regard.

Aqualung said:

He at least had DNA, but I have no basis on which to answer your other questions. After all, "conception" is the pairing of chromosomes. The writers were very specific in this regard.

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Why would God have DNA or gender?

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays said:

Why would God have DNA or gender?

Regards,
Scott

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Oh, yeah, gender too. I missed that one originally in your question.

Aqualung said:

Oh, yeah, gender too. I missed that one originally in your question.

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"The Christ was the word of God from the beginning - in the same way Mohammed says, "I was a prophet before the existence of Adam," and Baha'o'llah says, "In the beginning which has no beginning I loved thee."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 52)

"O handmaid of God! It is with the Lord Christ even as with Adam. Did the first human being who came into existence on this earth have a father or mother? It is certain that he had neither. But Christ lacked only a father."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 161)


"From these verses it is obvious that the being of a disciple also is not created by physical power, but by the spiritual reality. The honor and greatness of Christ is not due to the fact that He did not have a human father, but to His perfections, bounties and divine glory. If the greatness of Christ is His being fatherless, then Adam is greater than Christ, for He had neither father nor mother. It is 90 said in the Old Testament, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."[1] Observe that it is said that Adam came into existence from the Spirit of life. Moreover, the expression which John uses in regard to the disciples proves that they also are from the Heavenly Father. Hence it is evident that the holy reality, meaning the real existence of every great man, comes from God and owes its being to the breath of the Holy Spirit."
[1 Gen. 2:7.]
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 89)

"The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary [1] was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity -- that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits."
[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 124)

"59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is."
(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 3 - The Family Of Imran)

Aqualung said:

But Adam was made out of the dust (adamah). Israel is God's son through adoption - he chose Abraham and through him his descendents (until Jacob, or Israel). Jesus was the only child of God physically conceived - Mary literally conceived Jesus (while the Holy Ghost overshadowed her).

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So god had sex with Mary.??? or she used sperm bank.??? or InVitroFertilization(IVF)????

Shuch a bad thing u say about God. U associate animal function with THE Creator of the universe.


WHERE in bible it says David was "ADOPTED" ... or u r making it up???
Bible CLEARLY calls David BEGOTTEN, does begotten means adopted???
PS 2:7 I(David) will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my(god's) Son; this day have I(god) begotten thee(David)



Bible says Israel was first-BORN. Do u call ur ADOPTED son as ur BORN son???


So clearly bible calls David & Israel as BORN/Begotten sons of god .. then howcome christians call Jesus as the only born ???

benign6 said:

So god had sex with Mary.??? or she used sperm bank.??? or InVitroFertilization(IVF)????

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Have you read the Bible at all? If you don't want to read the whole thing, that's fine, but in order to answer the question you can just read Luke. That will answer your question completely. We believe everything that is written in that chapter, including the fact that Mary CONCEIVED (an expressly physical process). But, after reading, you will notice that it never says anywhere anything about sexual intercourse between Mary and God, and of course we don't believe that. I know, the Bible can be hard to understand sometimes, but this one shouldn't be too hard for you to understand, if you actually read it.

i repeat my actual question:-

WHERE in bible it says David was "ADOPTED" ... or u r making it up???
Bible CLEARLY calls David BEGOTTEN, does begotten means adopted???
PS 2:7 I(David) will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my(god's) Son; this day have I(god) begotten thee(David)



Bible says Israel was also first-BORN. Do u call ur ADOPTED son as ur BORN son???


So clearly bible calls David & Israel as BORN/Begotten sons of god .. then howcome christians call Jesus as the only born ???

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benign6 said:

This word just means “the ONLY” or “one of it’s kind”. & Indeed Jesus was “one-of-a-kind”

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yes Jesus was one of a kind, he was the ONLY ONE created by Jehovah alone . everything else was created through this ONLY BEGOTTEN SON . Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah , and this first born of creation (Jesus) was the only one created by Jehovah alone . he was the FIRST-BORN of creation .

The Greek word mo·no·ge·nes´ is defined by lexicographers as "single of its kind, only," or "the only member of a kin or kind." (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.
The Scriptures speak of "the only-begotten son" of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ "only-begotten daughter," and of a man’s "only-begotten" son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38) The Greek Septuagint uses mo·no·ge·nes´ when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: "Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter."—Jg 11:34.​

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo´gos, or Word, "this one was in the beginning with God," even "before the world was." (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."—1Jo 4:9. When it says IN THE BEGINNING it means the beginning of creation , so Jesus was with his father when the world started to be created but it was through Jesus , he was a master worker that is because he had a Good teacher and that was his father JEHOVAH .

benign6 said:

i repeat my actual question:-

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I don't really care about that question, though, thus I didn't answer it.

Aqualung said:

I don't really care about that question, though, thus I didn't answer it.

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don't care --or-- don't have any answer?