Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

rocka21 said:

Irvin, just wondering, why did you not tell me you were a Seventh-day Adventist when i asked? is there a reason? Is there something to hide? i ask what church you belong to and you respond " the church satan hates".

WOW

O, WELL

Click to expand...

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.1 John 3:24

Click to expand...

Scott1 said:

You have quoted some historians opinions.... do you have anything from the actual time period (as I have provided) that prove your point?

Click to expand...

d.n.irvin said:

Why should we believe Your "historians "opinion over My "historians" opinion? Since neither one of us was there.

Click to expand...

Furthermore do man's opinions outweigh Gods commands.?

Click to expand...

ten commandments said:

1. Do not lie.

2. Do not cheat.

3. Do not steal.

4. Do not covet your neighbor's ox, sheep or wife.

5. Do not leave your cake out in the rain.

6. Do not try to make toast while taking a bath.

7. Do not remove the tag from your new pillows.

8. Do not take candy from stangers.

9. Do not make me stop this car...

10. Never, I mean always, keep a trash bag in your car. It does not take up much room and if it gets filled up you can always throw it out the window.

Click to expand...

Scott1 said:

I did not give you "my historians" opinions, but quoted from documents written by these early Church fathers.
[/color]
We just have different beliefs on how God continues to "command" the Christian faithfull... we believe God never left us alone but left a Church to help guide us to Christ and the truth.

Clearly ,Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me John 14:6

Click to expand...

Not the Church

You seem to believe God waited hundreds of years... created the King James Version of the Bible.... then waited a few hundred years more to create your church in 1843... and now everyone will be ok if they just listen to d.n. irvin's divine opinion on what scripture means.... most important being the day of the week people worship.:cover:

Click to expand...

For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me. 2 Thes. 12:6

Click to expand...

d.n.irvin said:

Not the Church

Click to expand...

d.n.irvin said:

If you ask most Christians why they don't steal, kill or lie, they respond with the usual its contrary to the Word of God(Bible)?

However if you ask the same Christians why they don't keep the 4th commandment they can't give you one reason from the Bible why the 4th commandment is any different from the rest.

Who took away this commandment? Where can I find it in the Bible?

Click to expand...

d.n.irvin said:

Since you insist on talking about churches ~ The Seventh-Day Adventist Church did not start in 1844. Scott, 1844 is a significant date in bible prophecy- In this prophecy God gives insight into the Sanctuary service~ and this prophecy also deals with the "Investigative Judgment".

Click to expand...

Baerly said:

Hello, It would help to know who the ten comm. were given too. In (Ex.34:27) the scriptures teach us that the 10 comm, were only given to the Israelites (Jews).

So the Gentiles were never and we are not now under the ten comm.

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures." Acts 17:2. "Paul and his company ... went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down." Acts 13:13, 14. "And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." Acts 16:13. "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Acts 18:4.

Click to expand...

Jesus did restate some of the same moral laws which were in the O.T.LAW,but we obey them now because they are in the New Covenant Law (Jesus commandments). Even during O.T times the scriptures were telling people that there was going to be another law (Jer.31:31-34). This New Law would not be like the covenant made with the Israelites,it was going to be different in many way,the way of worship,it will have the provision for forgiveness of sins (John 4:24) (Heb. 8:12) (Acts 2:38,22:16) (Eph.1:7).

When did this New Law go into affect? At the death of Jesus on the cross (Heb.9:15-17). All the ten comm. were taken out of the way,done away,they decayed,were aboished (2Cor.3) (Col.2:14-17) (Eph.2:14-16) (Heb 8:6-13) (Gal.3:23-26).

Also (Isa.2:1-6) teaches us that a new law was to go forth from Jerusalem. That happened in (Acts 2). Notice (Heb.8:8,10) the new LAW would be put in our hearts.This happenes when we read the bible and study it (2Tim.2:15 ; 3:14-17) (EPh.3:3,4).

**The Old Covenant

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Hebrews 8:8-9 For finding fault with them, he saith, ... I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The fault with the old covenant was with the people, not with God or His law.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

**New Covenant based on Old Covenant

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make ... saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts.

**The two covenants were agreements between God and His people. The old covenant failed because it was based upon the faulty promises and works of the people.

Exodus 24:7 All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
The new covenant succeeds because it is God's law written in the heart and is based upon Jesus' promises and His miracle-working power.
Hebrews 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts.
A person's entire nature is changed, so he finds doing God's will a pleasure. Notice that the new covenant is based on the same law, but it is written in a different place (the heart) and based on better promises (God's).

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law

Click to expand...

We are not to have idols under the New Covenant either,but it is because the apostle Paul said it was wrong to do so in (Act 17:22-26).

We know that what the apostle Paul wrote was the word of God because of what we learn in (1Cor.14:37). It says the things that I (Paul) write unto you are the comm. of the Lord.

Paul also said:

Romans 3:20 By the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid

Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 8:3, 4 God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.

Click to expand...

I would be more than glad to study this topic more with you anytime.
Likewise
in love Baerly

Click to expand...

d.n.irvin said:

Since you insist on talking about churches ~ The Seventh-Day Adventist Church did not start in 1844.

Click to expand...

gnostic said:

I know that I rather late in replying.

Click to expand...

MaddLlama said:

Ok, then just imagine that we've changed the date in Scott's post to 1863.

Click to expand...

Ok- For the record you guys keep bringing up 1844

Click to expand...

Yes- William Miller was wrong on the belief that Jesus was coming back in the fall of 1844. How they missed " No man knows the day nor the hour"- well, I can't figure out that one either. However, His studies did validate Bible prophecy not Adventist prophecy, concerning the "Investigative Judgment". Once again the Seventh-Day Adventist Church did not from until some 40 years later in which William Miller had nothing to do with.

Click to expand...

Scott1 said:

Ummmm... might be a good idea to read the thread first before jumping in.... allready showed that your idea about Constantine is completely false.

As far as Scripture:

Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus' resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church.

Mark 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 14:15 I have kept my Father's commandmentsJohn 15:10 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16:17

Click to expand...

Acts 20:7 - this text shows the apostolic tradition of gathering together to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday, the "first day of the week." Luke documents the principle worship was on Sunday because this was one of the departures from the Jewish form of worship.

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures." Acts 17:2. "Paul and his company ... went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down." Acts 13:13, 14. "And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither." Acts 16:13. "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Acts 18:4.

Click to expand...

1 Cor. 16:2 - Paul instructs the Corinthians to make contributions to the churches "on the first day of the week," which is Sunday. This is because the primary day of Christian worship is Sunday.
Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says "let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath."

Romans 3:20 By the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin (break God's law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God Forbid

Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 8:3, 4 God sending his own Son ... condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.

Click to expand...

2 Thess. 2:15 - we are to hold fast to apostolic tradition, whether it is oral or written. The 2,000 year-old tradition of the Church is that the apostles changed the Sabbath day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Psalms 111:7, 8 All his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not.

Click to expand...

Heb. 4:8-9 - regarding the day of rest, if Joshua had given rest, God would not later speak of "another day," which is Sunday, the new Sabbath. Sunday is the first day of the week and the first day of the new creation brought about by our Lord's resurrection, which was on Sunday.

"All of us believe many things in regard to religion that we do not find in the Bible. For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible." The Catholic Virginian, "To Tell You The Truth,” Vol. 22, No. 49 (Oct. 3, 1947).

Click to expand...

Heb. 7:12 - when there is a change in the priesthood, there is a change in the law as well. Because we have a new Priest and a new sacrifice, we also have a new day of worship, which is Sunday.

"Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope." Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950

Click to expand...

Rev 1:10 - John specifically points out that he witnesses the heavenly Eucharistic liturgy on Sunday, the Lord's day, the new day of rest in Christ. Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - whatever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. Since the resurrection, Mass has been principally celebrated on Sunday.

''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

Click to expand...

Hope that helps,
S

Click to expand...

Scott1 said:

Sorry, I was refering to William Miller who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as "Adventists."..... the true roots of your group... even though he rejected most of the teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.... you know who she is right?

Click to expand...

"Seventh-Day Adventist" not Adventist used to be called "Keepers of the Book"

Click to expand...

d.n.irvin said:

Scott compare these quotes to the Bible and not the Church

Click to expand...

Scott1 said:

Again... it boils down to your opinion vs. my opinion on Scripture... the core of the Protestant heresy?.

Click to expand...

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Click to expand...

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Click to expand...

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? Gal.3:1

Click to expand...

d.n.irvin said:

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18,

Click to expand...