Losing One's Mind?

Just because it isn't easy to describe in words doesn't mean it's impossible to have an intelligent conversation about spiritual experiences.

The largest problem with your statement is that you clearly don't understand the purpose of this forum: it isn't just about sharing personal experiences, but sharing information, learning from one another, and finding common ground.

Frankly, I'm confused as to why you bother to post here if you think that discussing religion and spiritual experiences is largely useless, or even impossible. Did you come here just to convert the masses to your "enlightened" way of thinking? You know, we have rules against that sort of thing.

A. Ben-Shema said:

Would anyone agree that one of the reasons religious discussion boards exist, is the desire of so many to merely satisfy their ego and their intellect - in short: their worldly, 'first-born' unenlightened MIND (satan)?

Click to expand...

Hm...I think that perhaps that is the case for some people, but certainly many take advantage of the wisdom that is found in exploring multiple POVs.

Discussion and debate allows one to test the strength of an idea. It also allows one to acquire new information that may be added to their spiritual framework.

A. Ben-Shema said:

Can any amount of intellectual discussions of books and religious studies ever really reveal the EXPERIENCE of God?

Click to expand...

If they look deep enough, perhaps.

A. Ben-Shema said:

Would anyone agree that one of the reasons religious discussion boards exist, is the desire of so many to merely satisfy their ego...

Click to expand...

Well, that may be the case for one, but that's not a very good synonym for "so many."

As for this discussion board, it exists to praise and worship the Almighty Choodle.

Have a cupcake. :cupcake:

A. Ben-Shema said:

Would anyone agree that one of the reasons religious discussion boards exist, is the desire of so many to merely satisfy their ego and their intellect - in short: their worldly, 'first-born' unenlightened MIND (satan)? Can any amount of intellectual discussions of books and religious studies ever really reveal the EXPERIENCE of God?

I would say that God cannot be found by using one's (unenlightened) mind, but by losing one's (carnal) mind.

Peace & Love

Click to expand...

I would say that a revealed experience of God may be obtained by books or religious studies as much as it could by losing one's carnal mind. Both approaches are equally valid because a distinction between unenlightened and carnal in description of mind is not revealing of differences descriptively IMO.

A. Ben-Shema said:

Would anyone agree that one of the reasons religious discussion boards exist, is the desire of so many to merely satisfy their ego

Click to expand...

"The ego* is a cupcake" -- The Grand Poohwawa

*or was that the soul is a cupcake

A. Ben-Shema said:

Would anyone agree that one of the reasons religious discussion boards exist, is the desire of so many to merely satisfy their ego and their intellect - in short: their worldly, 'first-born' unenlightened MIND (satan)? Can any amount of intellectual discussions of books and religious studies ever really reveal the EXPERIENCE of God?

I would say that God cannot be found by using one's (unenlightened) mind, but by losing one's (carnal) mind.

Peace & Love

Click to expand...

O MAN OF TWO VISIONS!
Close one eye and open the other. Close one to the world and all that is therein, and open the other to the hallowed beauty of the Beloved.
(Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)

"O Kazim, close thine eye to the people of the world; drink the water of knowledge from the heavenly cup bearers, and listen not to the nonsensical utterances of the manifestations of Satan, because the manifestations of Satan are occupying today the observation posts of the glorious path of God, and preventing the people by every means of deception and ruse. Before long you will witness the turning away of the people of Bayan from the Manifestation of the Merciful."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 431)

Just to explain that Satan is really satan, and a part of every member of humankind, but NOT a seperate entity:

"The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm. The world of nature is defective. Look at it clearly, casting aside all superstition and imagination. If you should leave a man uneducated and barbarous in the wilds of Africa, would there be any doubt about his remaining ignorant? God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77)

Regards,
Scott

lunamoth said:

"The ego* is a cupcake" -- The Grand Poohwawa

*or was that the soul is a cupcake

Click to expand...

I think it was "The ego needs a cupcake."

We should consult the Holy Book of Choodle so we can be sure.

Even so, the purport of that verse admits multiple understandings.

Booko said:

I think it was "The ego needs a cupcake."

We should consult the Holy Book of Choodle so we can be sure.

Even so, the purport of that verse admits multiple understandings.

Click to expand...

"The id needs a cupcake" would make more sense.

I think i have learned alot here at RF. As a preacher, i think its good to see other views and have an open mind. i think it is when we stop having dissucion, is when we get in trouble.

i do also think that this is not a place for them who get there feelings hurt easy. In the end, i don't expect to " convert" anyone here, but i think " seeds" are planted, ( both ways).

MaddLlama said:

"The id needs a cupcake" would make more sense.

Click to expand...

It certainly would ML, it certainly would.

MaddLlama said:

"The id needs a cupcake" would make more sense.

Click to expand...

Are you sure that's not an orthodox interpolation, Madd? A little birdy told me it was really "The IP needs a cupcake." And you know how it is, the Bluejay is never wrong, as it is invested with the Spirit of Choodle.

Booko said:

Are you sure that's not an orthodox interpolation, Madd? A little birdy told me it was really "The IP needs a cupcake." And you know how it is, the Bluejay is never wrong, as it is invested with the Spirit of Choodle.

Click to expand...

My revelation came from the spider monkey, and the sweet whisperings of the Bush baby.

Perhaps I'm a terrible heretic. I am prepared to be pounded with baked goods!! *cowers*

A. Ben-Shema said:

Would anyone agree that one of the reasons religious discussion boards exist, is the desire of so many to merely satisfy their ego and their intellect - in short: their worldly, 'first-born' unenlightened MIND (satan)? Can any amount of intellectual discussions of books and religious studies ever really reveal the EXPERIENCE of God?

I would say that God cannot be found by using one's (unenlightened) mind, but by losing one's (carnal) mind.

Peace & Love

Click to expand...

I do not think one must lose ones "Carnal" mind to found God. I'm right here, beside to lose ones mind is to lose ones Sanity and I don't remember ever having that in the first place. Now when it comes to other Deities, then I talk to them every day, but then like I said "No sanity"(hehe) and has for the "First-Born" Unenlightened MIND.......I AM Satan!

I would say that God cannot be found by using one's (unenlightened) mind, but by losing one's (carnal) mind.

Click to expand...

We are carnal creatures and why should we try to be anything but that? As I have debated religious people, seeing with your spiritual mind is just another way of saying, "I am right and you are wrong." You delude yourself into thinking you have some higher perception and that others cannot see the truth of your beliefs because they are carnal. It is a pathetic attempt (no offense intended) at "winning" the argument.

Popeyesays said:

O MAN OF TWO VISIONS!
Close one eye and open the other. Close one to the world and all that is therein, and open the other to the hallowed beauty of the Beloved.
(Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words)

"O Kazim, close thine eye to the people of the world; drink the water of knowledge from the heavenly cup bearers, and listen not to the nonsensical utterances of the manifestations of Satan, because the manifestations of Satan are occupying today the observation posts of the glorious path of God, and preventing the people by every means of deception and ruse. Before long you will witness the turning away of the people of Bayan from the Manifestation of the Merciful."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 431)

Just to explain that Satan is really satan, and a part of every member of humankind, but NOT a seperate entity:

"The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm. The world of nature is defective. Look at it clearly, casting aside all superstition and imagination. If you should leave a man uneducated and barbarous in the wilds of Africa, would there be any doubt about his remaining ignorant? God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77)

Click to expand...

I think that everything you have quoted (that I have read) from your Master's writings ring true. I would have to say that I believe Him to have been a genuine Spiritual Master in the line of Truth.

Thanks for the quotes.

Love & Peace

A. Ben-Shema said:

I think that everything you have quoted (that I have read) from your Master's writings ring true. I would have to say that I believe Him to have been a genuine Spiritual Master in the line of Truth.

Thanks for the quotes.

Love & Peace

Click to expand...

The fact is that He is anyone's master, nothing hidden, nothing withheld. And all those words are the written words of Baha`u'llah and Abdu'l Baha who have both passed from this life.

So perhaps the written words are as full of wisdom and guidance as "living masters"?

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays said:

The fact is that He is anyone's master, nothing hidden, nothing withheld. And all those words are the written words of Baha`u'llah and Abdu'l Baha who have both passed from this life.

So perhaps the written words are as full of wisdom and guidance as "living masters"?

Click to expand...

I agree that all genuine Spiritual Masters taught precisely the same ONE Spiritual Truth of God. However, the difference between a historical Master (e.g. what has become a 'religious' belief system) and a living Master, is simply the revelation of the Ineffable Mysteries (which cannot be done through words).

Have you ever wondered why Jesus (and other Masters) actually laid their hands on people? See e.g.

Deut 34:9 "Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the Spirit of Wisdom, because Moses had laid his hands on him."

Jer 1:9-10 "Then the LORD reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “Now, I have put my words in your mouth. See, today I appoint you over nations."

Hab 3:3-4 "His glory covered the heavens and His praise filled the earth. His splendor was like the sunrise; rays flashed from his hand, where his power was hidden."

Matt 19:15 "When He had placed his hands on them, he went on from there."

Mark 7:32-33 "There some people brought to him a man who was deaf and could hardly talk, and they begged him to place his hand on the man. After he took him aside, away from the crowd, Jesus put his fingers into the man’s ears. Then he spit and touched the man’s tongue." [This may sound strange - it could be a somewhat corrupt description of initiation]

Mark 10:16 "And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them."

Acts 6:6 "They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them."

Rev 1:17 "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last."

Peace & Love

I've had the great pleasure of meeting Tirazullah Samandaree while he still lived. He was a child who lived in the presence of Baha`u'llah. I shook hands with him at the time. It is something I remember frequently, and I have shaken hands with Baha`i's and others many times since. The chain of contact with Baha`u'llah is a symbolic one, but no less real.

I would contend I have shaken hands with the descendants of people who touched the hands of Abraham.

You are looking at the short-run of things. The short-run is not the issue.

The words of Baha`u'llah will not be grasped completely in any person's lifetime. But the attempt to do that is the issue not the completion of the task.

Words are what we have. If those words were not sufficient, God would have given us something else.

Regards,
Scott

Would anyone agree that one of the reasons religious discussion boards exist, is the desire of so many to merely satisfy their ego and their intellect - in short: their worldly, 'first-born' unenlightened MIND (satan)? Can any amount of intellectual discussions of books and religious studies ever really reveal the EXPERIENCE of God?

I would say that God cannot be found by using one's (unenlightened) mind, but by losing one's (carnal) mind.

Click to expand...

My ego and intelectual levels can never be filled.
But, as for using a website, sharing of knowledge can fill others with knowledge, which is the basis of wisdom. Sometimes you learn from others, and other times you will teach others. Others try to either strenghten the faith of others, and some to get people to ask questions.