Is Freemasonry compatible with Christianity?

Bondi said:

That article is most interesting, and as always is some what flawed.

Yes there is a pyramid on the back of the dollar bill, with the all seeing eye, but this symbol was Christian prior to anything else, and the founding fathers and the deigner of the bill were all christian. The pyramid is also no a symbol of Freemasonry, I believe it is used in one of the degrees in either the Scottish or York rite, but these are additions and not Freemasonry.

The quotes of Albert Pike have been severley mis-interpreted. To take one example

"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instruction in religion"

He is correct, it is a temple of religion, just not one as it has been portrayed. one of the teachings of Freemasonry is to be true to your faith before you are true to Freemasonry, that is the only real teaching I have seen, or have evidence of, regarding religion. I have only ever seen religous people claim Freemasonry is a religion, mainly because they do not realise the teaching are phylisophical in nature, like that of plato and socretes, and although they reference and utilise religous words and parables it is merely the fact that people will understand better.

The part I would be more concerned with is that the Father in question turned his back on someone, he segregated and discriminated. Would you expect someone to denounce something just because you said so. The gentleman said there were many other of the congregation that were in blue lodge, but the article only mentions screening of any new joiners, not checking those already a member of the church.

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Thank you for correcting errors. I don't like holding false presuppositions about something, but one has to remember that in Orthodoxy, any ecumenical effort is quite verbotin, and we do view them as religious (The definition of religion does change from group to group). I will remember not to repeat the errors you mentioned.

Bondi said:

I do not ask you go against your teachings, what I would ask is that you keep an open mind. If your church says it is not okay, then do not join, but do not condemn so many good men because all churches have been wrong before.

If you have any questions about Freemasonry please ask, there is only one thing that cannot be disclosed and that is of the modes of recognition, but you can find them if you want anyway.

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I'll have to think on some questions, and I'll post them. I'm always game to learn .

Orthodoxy does forbid Freemasonry, but it holds very similar opinion of the various Christian denominations, and so on. Most Orthodox Christians are taught not to speculate on those outside the Church (the furthest we may go is to say the hopes outside of the Ark are not...sanguine), so I'm not going to go on street corners preaching against it. As I said, I don't know much about it. All I can do is look to my own salvation, adhere to Orthodox teachers, and defend her teachings (and even then, I should be very careful, for that is a door to judgementalism).

It isn't my job to go around condemning everyone who isn't Orthodox.

No*s said:

as relayed to My own godfather, an active Freemason prior to his conversion to Orthodoxy, said that his experience of the higher orders of freemasonry was that it indeed *is* a religion with secret spiritual teachings that deny the existence of a single truth and that freemasonry is the ultimate collection of "truths". From the Freemason's piont of view, because all religions had *some* of the truth, and they were a collection of all of those "partial" truths, then it is compatable for a person to be a freemason and a practicing member of some religious organization. But just because they say so doesn't make it true. That's like the Roman Catholic who believes that they can receive communion in an Orthodox Church because the Pope says its ok (no one bothered to ask the Orthodox). They are genuinely surprised when a priest will tell them that they cannot receive if they are not Orthodox.
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Just realised this didnt come out on my reply.

There are only three degrees in Freemasonry, amny people claim there are 33 degrees, which infact is the Scottish and York Rite, which depending on who you talk to is a greater learning, more often than no mis-interpreted. In fact the most common complaints made about Freemasonry are actuall about the two rites and not Freemasonry at all, it's just people portion it the name they know.

The teaching of partial truths and all religions have got bits of it right comes down to the way people should live their lifes, not religously, but towards other. Help when you can, give when you can that sort of stuff, the bits that all relgions have in common, ie the aspects that reflect behaviour towards other human beings. It is easy to misinterpret, my views were very much the same to start with, and only through my own research did I change my mind.

It is true, just because they say it is so, doesn't make, but that is a double edge sword that then becomes a defence as well, just because they say it isn't, doesn't mean it isn't. the church have been known to pass judgement and ruling with what they currently know, rather than what might be right after investigation.

No as for an Catholic not bneing welcome in an orthodox chruch to receive communion, I thought all churches werr God's houses, who has the authority to say who can and cannot receive, no one on this planet. Who's religion is the right one, who follows the true faith. All questions that cannot be answered or proved, and this is what Freemasonry has tried to avoid. By segregating itself from a specific religion it is slandered by most, it is the fact they it does not promote, prefer or segregate according to faith that they are critisised so much, because they a tolerant where others are not.

Bondi said:

An interesting article which I love to read is as follows:

Around 300 Freemasons and members of the public attended a unique Multi Faith Service at All Saints Church, Barry on Sunday when members of the Christian, Hindu, Jain, Jewish, Muslim and Sikh religions took part in a united act of worship. A candle representing each Faith was lit by a representative of a different Faith and, following the readings, all six representatives lit a central candle representing the Supreme Being all Faiths believe in.
The Service was attended by the Reverend Ian Rees and the Address was given by the Reverend Norman Lea, the Assistant Provincial Grand Master for Freemasons in South East Wales. Reverend Lea was delighted with the unity expressed by the readings from the different Faiths and said "If you closed your eyes and just listened to the various readings, they could have come from any of the Faiths. They have a great deal in common and we all need to work together and worship that Supreme Being we all believe in."

Following the Service, the congregation were invited to a reception at the Masonic Hall in Broad Street.

Dr Akram Baig, speaking on behalf of the local Freemasons who organised the event, said "For centuries, Freemasons of all religions have worked together in total harmony and this Service seemed the logical next step. Following its success, we anticipate holding it as an annual event and asking the other Religions to host it in turn in their Mosques, Synagogues or Temples."

I am not sure if this includes your faith, but imagine if this was done all around the world, there would be no holy wars, which is what most wars boil down to. Tolerance is the key to Utopia

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No, if an Orthodox Christian was participating in that, he was no longer Orthodox.

I believe this type of service and practice is what is at the heart of the objection of the article to Freemasonry, even with it having errors. Ecumenism is considered a heresy, and a very dangerous one. It is true that if everyone held the view you've outlined, there woudl be no holy wars, but wars will always be with us. (Utopianism is also quite frowned upon...but that is another thread).

The problem here is that Orthodoxy holds that Christ founded His Church and through it brings salvation into the world. The type of thing you've described does compromise that belief. We can't even hold that belief seriously and still hold joint services. If I go to a government meeting, and they hold a Protestant prayer, I cannot participate. That is Orthodox behavior.

When we attempt to do what your quote describes, it is quite religious from our perspective, and quite Antichristian. I understand there are differences there, but it's that very type of unity that the service attempted for that makes it both incompatible with Orthodoxy and quite religious from the Orthodox view.

I will, though, think of some questions (not loaded ones, either). I can start with, what's a basic outline of your history?

Bondi said:

Just realised this didnt come out on my reply.

There are only three degrees in Freemasonry, amny people claim there are 33 degrees, which infact is the Scottish and York Rite, which depending on who you talk to is a greater learning, more often than no mis-interpreted. In fact the most common complaints made about Freemasonry are actuall about the two rites and not Freemasonry at all, it's just people portion it the name they know.

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That's more than I knew right there .

Bondi said:

The teaching of partial truths and all religions have got bits of it right comes down to the way people should live their lifes, not religously, but towards other. Help when you can, give when you can that sort of stuff, the bits that all relgions have in common, ie the aspects that reflect behaviour towards other human beings. It is easy to misinterpret, my views were very much the same to start with, and only through my own research did I change my mind.

It is true, just because they say it is so, doesn't make, but that is a double edge sword that then becomes a defence as well, just because they say it isn't, doesn't mean it isn't. the church have been known to pass judgement and ruling with what they currently know, rather than what might be right after investigation.

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The commonality you just described is precisely the thing that Orthodoxy gravitates against . While we can accept bits of truth here and there, we don't try to mesh them together. They're different.

You're right on the sword cutting both ways. However, it if one side says they aren't the same, and they refuse to recognize it, then they aren't the same. However, just because we say what we say about ourselves doesn't make it true either. That is quite true.

Bondi said:

No as for an Catholic not bneing welcome in an orthodox chruch to receive communion, I thought all churches werr God's houses, who has the authority to say who can and cannot receive, no one on this planet. Who's religion is the right one, who follows the true faith. All questions that cannot be answered or proved, and this is what Freemasonry has tried to avoid. By segregating itself from a specific religion it is slandered by most, it is the fact they it does not promote, prefer or segregate according to faith that they are critisised so much, because they a tolerant where others are not.

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That's plenties OK. That's a very Protestant view. In the beginning, there was one Church. People split away then (Gnostics), but the Church continued, and even after the split between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, this "one Church" mentality continued. It was only after the Protestant Reformation, and the many groups tried to reconcile their claims, do we find a move away from a physical Church. Orthodoxy, though, predates that, and she isn't about to change claims there.

Bondi said:

For one Freemasonry has no religous system other than you have to have a belief in a supreme being. because Freemasonry is a philisophical learning it negates a preference to religion, but does require a belief as mentioned. The use of the term Great Architect is a generic term so not to discriminate any person's religion. Due to the fact they do not study, teach or preach religous doctrine, they have endeavoured to remove all wording and phrasing bespoke to a particular faith. Where a prayer is spoken, so not to cause offence, they use a generic term that all faiths can apply it to their "god".

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Bondi said:

Bondi said:

Masonary is a SPIRITUAL PATH...ike Buddhism...one can be a christian..or jew..and STILL a BUDDHIST.....
"Reigion is a cub hence the beatings, Spirituaity is a path hence the journey" ---my sexy Gir friend

"Magic does not require reigion...but unilke reigion...it does not deny it either" --paaphrased rj stewart

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Freemasonry allows each member to put their own book of faith at the top of the pile. It does not dictate which is right or wrong.


Close but no cigar, Freemasonry allows every man to choose his own faith, it is not a religous organisation and the reason you cannot come to terms with it is because you interpret as if it is. Freemasonry is open to all faiths because it does not teach religion.

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EXACTLY

The IDEA of the "great architect" isnt just being PC..sorry..its the idea that God is MIND....as mind God thinks...Angels and MANY other spirit beings are "his" hands....so God is the great planner.....(using archetypes in their true greek usuage as blue prints)...and Anges are bricklayers! so to speak......We can think of mind...and hands....

since when has the all seeing eye been a symbol of christianity???????

the all seeing I is a masonic and rosicrucian symbol...po poo on it being christian..what rubbish
Surely this symbol relates to the eye of Horus as well.....

A: The all-seeing eye ? a most obvious Masonic Symbol often also seen on Masonic aprons. It is said that the All Seeing Eye has a gematria value of 70 + 3 + 200 =273, which is the same value as the phrase EHBEN MOSU HABONIM, meaning “the stone which the builders refused”, which York Rite Masons will no doubt understand. It also has the same gematria value as HIRAM ABIFF, the architect of K.S. Temple.


http://www3.tky.3web.ne.jp/~jafarr/The%20great%20seal%20of%20the%20United%20States%20of%20America1.html

If the founding fathers were Christians.....WHY...the revernce for the number 5??? whay are some citys buit into a pentagram shape.....cmon mr mason...you're being dishonest...Or are you one of those sily masons that considers women inferior...etc etc etc???

Bondi,

...I just realized that you're a new member that I haven't welcomed yet. In that case, you have my semi-formal, and belated, greeting. Now...go to the Member Introductions page and introduce yourself .

hoomer said:

the all seeing I is a masonic and rosicrucian symbol...po poo on it being christian..what rubbish
If the founding fathers were Christians.....WHY...the revernce for the number 5???
whay are some citys buit into a pentagram shape.....cmon mr mason...you're being dishonest...Or are you one of those sily masons that considers women inferior...etc etc etc???

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Symbology is used all over the place,

The All-Seeing Eye
This all-seeing eye of God looks out from the triangle of the Trinity. It is found in some English and Greek churches.

The pentegram, or
The Five Pointed Star
The Epiphany Star. The Star of Jacob (Numbers 24:17) finds it fulfillment in the "manifestation" of Jesus to the Gentiles (Matt. 2:1,2).

As for it's inversion on street plans it depends where your standing. The pentegram stems from the position of venus, and actually portrays a rotating pentegram.

As for the bulding of DC, which is what you are referring to, the forefathers of America did not design it.

Give me a shape in masonry that proves it's occultist or anti-christian and I will find it in Christianity, where do you think they got them from, ALL masons were Christian to begin with, it was started in England 1717, where it was the only religion, and seeing as you have to have a relgious faith, it would of been Christianity.

As for dishonest, no I am not, I have merely posted what I personally have researched, not just quickly searched on the web and posted as my own.

I do not find women inferior, in fact quite the oposite, I find their way of thinking superior to a males as they are not so egotistical, full of bravado and don't have a desire to blow things up first then ask questions later.

And as for mason's being silly, you tend to find the majority of scholaristic in nature, it is the desire to learn and gain knowledge through philisophical learning that draws most men to the fraternity.

And No*s, I am on my way, didn't realise.

Interesting articles.



Although some of these are hosted on Masonry sites, the articles are un-edited and are dictated from source.



http://www.mainemason.org/aboutfm/stb5.htm



http://www.stbryde.co.uk/articles/A%20Minister%20First.htm



http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=185672003



These are a few from differing parts and probably differing factions of religion.



I hope that maybe these will show that there is no definitive answer as to the compatibility of Freemasonry and (insert your religion here).



More often than not for every member of clergy that states they are not compatible, there is also one that states they are, so which one is right, to say one of them is wrong, would be like saying the entire attendance of that persons church are of a differing, blaspheming religion that are unaware of the truth.



It is a complicated issue and the answer has to be a personal one, only you yourself can decide whether it is compatible with your faith, no one is trying to force you to agree with it, many will try and make you disagree with it, and no one will try and make you become a member.



The underlying fact is that there are many, many good men in this fraternity and all they do is try and help, and not just other masons either, have a look here



www.grandcharity.org.uk



This is only a small part of the fraternity, and if you view the site, the most senior position is held by a women, surely if they were trying to get to the seats of power, they would of put a brother in charge of their own organisations.

Bondi said:

And as for mason's being silly, you tend to find the majority of scholaristic in nature, it is the desire to learn and gain knowledge through philisophical learning that draws most men to the fraternity.

And No*s, I am on my way, didn't realise.

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ok my apologies....
but study is the work of the 8th emanation...study will only get you s far
Ok maybe you're pne of the good masons...there are many that aren't.....I have spoken to some interesting masons and some downright stupid ones....I do think masonry as a whole seems to have lost a lot.....but what do I know...not much.....

hoomer said:

but what do I know...not much.....

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Thank you for the apology.

If you do want to know anything, please feel free to ask, I do not know everything, but I seem to know alot more than most here.

The only thing I know about Freemasons in Sweden is that they donate huge sums to medical research and similar purposes. No religion could oppose that.

I just found out (and wasn't surprised) that among the members in Sweden, there is one former Archbishop, a few bishops and some 500 ordained male clergy of the Church of Sweden. Doesn't seem too terrible to me.

anders said:

The only thing I know about Freemasons in Sweden is that they donate huge sums to medical research and similar purposes. No religion could oppose that.

I just found out (and wasn't surprised) that among the members in Sweden, there is one former Archbishop, a few bishops and some 500 ordained male clergy of the Church of Sweden. Doesn't seem too terrible to me.

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Which brings me back to the point. You cannot state a faith doesn't agree with Freemasonry when so many of it's employees are members. Until there is a 100% ruling it stays a personal choice, else the Bishops and Clergy would be sacked and excommunicated surely.