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Do you believe that war is murder?

See Body

  • Yes (explain in post)

    Votes: 13 59.1%

  • No (explain in post)

    Votes: 6 27.3%

  • Beats me

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • Total voters
    22
jewscout

jewscout

Religious Zionist
I believe that a soldier fighting another soldier and one of them dying is not murder...it is killing and not the best thing but that's what happens when there is war. Two people fighting in a war...one of them is going to die...but i don't think that makes the survivor a murderer...i don't consider my cousin a murderer...and he was in Iraq with the 101st.
 
T

TheIdealist

Member
To you hoomer i say this if we do not defend ourselves there will be no one left to carry on the progress of those who want peace. I have never wanted the blood of an animal on my hands much less another humanbeing. You must understand because we fight does not mean we that that is our desire.
 
hoomer

hoomer

Member
the problem is who defines what is right..and what is wrong.....

the bible says (lol and NO I am NOT a christian) "though shat not murder"

NOW this can be taken that war is ok..as its a act of defence and preserving one's way of living.

Personaly I take it as....killing is ok....man cannot live by bread aone......BUT..excessive kiling is wrong.....war is clearly excessive killing!

if there were only 2 peope alive...and they were brother and sister.....and the only way to continue the human race was to perfrm an act of rape.....woud the ends be justified by the means?

Woud Hitler's search for purity through mas murder ever have led to a viable end?

Is the war in Iraq realy about defence? Are we really under threat?....

do 2 wrongs ever make a right?.........

"when fighting
monsters the person fighting should be careful not to become one" --Nietzsche

Is perpetuatinmg the same mistakes really progress?

Have you seen how many US congressmen or their children have been in war? it is a pitful minoruty

War is killing or murder for an ideal.....what happens if that ideal is hollow?

read the folowing essay..awaken to the false ideals given in the name of "freedom"

http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeVII/Secrecy.htm
RELIGION AND SECRECY IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION
The Gentleman, the Prince, and the Simulacrum

--hoomer
SPIRITUS DOMINI REPLEVIT ORBEM TERRARUM
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
hoomer. the bible says (lol and NO I am NOT a christian) "though shat not murder" [/QUOTE said:
Hoomer, may I ask, if you are not a Christian, than why do you use the Bible as a standard to define the parameters of what you call murder? Interesting when people do that..because, (and maybe there could be a thread on this), to say you are not a Christian may be true but equally true is to say its word inspires you in as far its contents become qualifed to you in the defining of your reality.
Click to expand...
 
T

TheIdealist

Member
Ok strictly looking at just killing in genral say someone has your spouse or best friend at gun point and you have the oppurtunity to kill the the gunman and save your friend what would you do?
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
TheIdealist said:
Ok strictly looking at just killing in genral say someone has your spouse or best friend at gun point and you have the oppurtunity to kill the the gunman and save your friend what would you do?
Click to expand...

I would murder the gunman.
 
T

TheIdealist

Member
Does anybody have the webster definition for murder? cause i personally dont want to call it murder, to me it is defending . Murder seems to me something done coldblooded. killing with joy you know.
 
t3gah

t3gah

Well-Known Member
In the bible the wars that occured were all sanctioned by the almighty father himself. He actually spoke to the leaders that were going to go into battle for God's diving will to take place.

The 10 commandments and other books of the bible have had debates over certian words that relate to killing. Some say in Exodus that the word is murder and not kill. And the same holds true for other scripture comparisons. They, whomever makes that judgement, fails to account for what I have said in my first paragraph.

Is it bad then for anyone to kill, whether in war or law enforcement? YES.
Is it murder? YES.

There's a scripture that states that God wants everyone to achieve repentance. They can't do this if someone kills them.
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m150.htm

Murder can be in self-defense. What you are looking for is motive and intent. The connotation you just put on it are motives that within the scope of the word can be added changed or deleted to change the contextual meaning of the world in an idea or sentence.

Take stealing for example. Say a kid starving of hunger steals bread from a street vendor to survive. Why most people wouldn't see it as a moral issue but an issue of survival the physical action of taking something that is not yours without compensation is still stealing. It is the motive is what others judge it by but that motive does not alter the word that describes the action that transpired .
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
robtex said:
hoomer. the bible says (lol and NO I am NOT a christian) "though shat not murder" [/QUOTE said:
Hoomer, may I ask, if you are not a Christian, than why do you use the Bible as a standard to define the parameters of what you call murder? Interesting when people do that..because, (and maybe there could be a thread on this), to say you are not a Christian may be true but equally true is to say its word inspires you in as far its contents become qualifed to you in the defining of your reality.
Click to expand...
Sorry I just looked this is in the Christian section...my bad. sorry.
Click to expand...
 
T

TheIdealist

Member
Is it bad then for anyone to kill, whether in war or law enforcement? YES.
Is it murder? YES.-t3gah


So you kill someone in self defense is that murder?
 
t3gah

t3gah

Well-Known Member
TheIdealist said:
Is it bad then for anyone to kill, whether in war or law enforcement? YES.
Is it murder? YES.-t3gah


So you kill someone in self defense is that murder?
Click to expand...
What scripture backs up 'self defense'?
 
M

may

Well-Known Member
Imagine the dreadful situation if Christ’s followers were to fight in opposing armies, trying to kill one another. Such a scenario would be contrary to Christian principles. Really, those who obey the God of the Bible would not harm anyone—not even their enemies.—Matthew 5:43-45.
​
Clearly, God does not put his blessing on modern carnal warfare between humans. Being peaceable, true Christians advocate the peace that will be established worldwide under God’s Kingdom.

 
john313

john313

warrior-poet
It depends on which side you are on and why the war is being fought. The Iraq thing is a good example. The american soldiers(mindlessly obeying orders from their corrupt leaders) are invading another country and killing many people, this is murder. The Iraqis who are defending their homes from an invading enemy are not murderers, they are simply fighting the invaders.
If you are fighting against oppression, then war/killing can be justified. If you are invading a country that is not oppressing you or anyone else, then you are a murderer. (when I say you I am not referring to anyone in particular, this is the undefined you). Killing innocent people who have not taken up arms against you=murder. 9/11 = murder, bombing/invading Iraq = murder.
 
t3gah

t3gah

Well-Known Member
john313 said:
It depends on which side you are on and why the war is being fought. The Iraq thing is a good example. The american soldiers (mindlessly obeying orders from their corrupt leaders) are invading another country and killing many people, this is murder. The Iraqis who are defending their homes from an invading enemy are not murderers, they are simply fighting the invaders.

If you are fighting against oppression, then war/killing can be justified. If you are invading a country that is not oppressing you or anyone else, then you are a murderer. (when I say you I am not referring to anyone in particular, this is the undefined you). Killing innocent people who have not taken up arms against you=murder. 9/11 = murder, bombing/invading Iraq = murder.
Click to expand...
This discussion is under Christian, not Political Issues or General Debates.

I found the scripture. It's an old scripture. Kill away. Ignore Jesus.

Exodus 22:2
 
john313

john313

warrior-poet
may said:
Imagine the dreadful situation if Christ’s followers were to fight in opposing armies, trying to kill one another. Such a scenario would be contrary to Christian principles. Really, those who obey the God of the Bible would not harm anyone—not even their enemies.—Matthew 5:43-45.


​


Clearly, God does not put his blessing on modern carnal warfare between humans. Being peaceable, true Christians advocate the peace that will be established worldwide under God’s Kingdom.
Click to expand...
This is a nice thought, but unrealistic in today's world. God does not want us to oppress each other and steal from each other, nor are we supposed to be greedy and love money more than God. Unfortunately most world leaders and especially american leaders love money much more than God and His people. These are the same leaders that pay young men and women to kill others who disagree with them or have something they might want(money or resources). I will try to be the first in line for tickets to the peaceful new world, but I think it will come with much bloodshed first. The evil rulers and evil teachers will have to be eliminated, either by changing their warped minds or by death. By eliminating evil we can have peace and goodness. If evil is not eliminated first, then it will rise again. Even Jesus's disciples were willing to fight the oppressor. When they came to take Jesus in the garden, one of the disciples cut off the ear of a Roman. The next question you should ask yourself--Why would he have a sword in the first place??????????
 
T

TheIdealist

Member
The american soldiers(mindlessly obeying orders from their corrupt leaders) are invading another country and killing many people, this is murder. The Iraqis who are defending their homes from an invading enemy are not murderers, they are simply fighting the invaders.


For ONE- have you been to war who are you to say we do our job mindlessly? TWO - we didnt walk in there killing every walking thing THREE- we werent fighting the iraqis (except for the few soldiers at the beginning) and they werent fighting us i watched more iraqis get killed than americans helping fight the same people we were fighting. FOUR- We were fighting the invaders together egyptians, sudanes, libyans, iranians, pakistanies to name a few. Last but not least were you there?
 
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