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Biblical Salvation

T

thedictator

A Dictator of a Coach
By God's Grace, we are saved by the work of the Fathers Plan. ( Ephesians 1:4 )

By God Grace, we are saved by the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross, and the work of the Blood of Jesus. ( Colossians 1:22 )

By God Grace, we are saved by the work of the Holy Spirit. ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 " .......to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit......." )

By Grace, we are saved by the work of the Great Commission. ( Matthew 28:18-20)

By God's Grace we all have been given the Good News by the work of a missionary, preacher, teacher, elder, parent, or just someone who gave us the word of God. ( Romans 10:13-14 " for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? ) so By God's Grace, we are saved by the work of others.

By God's Grace, we are saved by the work of our belief. ( John 6:29 " the work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." )

By God's Grace, we are saved by our Repentance. ( Acts 17:30, Luke 13:3 Acts 2:38 )

By God's Grace, we are saved by our confession of Jesus Christ. ( Romans 10:9-10, )

By God's Grace we are saved by the Spiritual waters of Baptism. ( Acts 2:38 ) Baptism is NOT a work that I do, It is the spiritual work of the Holy Spirit cleansing my soul. I do no work at all in Baptism. All of the work is done to me. The physical work is done by God's Representative ( the Baptizer)

Romans 6:3-4-- Water baptism connects us to the spiritual work of God.

"Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? ( this spiritual act is going on at the same time as the physical act. ) We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a NEW LIFE ( saved )."

By God's Grace we are raised up out of the water to a born again life or salvation.
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
All the scriptures you posted are true, but your closed door policy is not!
You teach the Sabbath done away! Yet you have not one shred of evidence you have the authority to change times and the Law! The Catholic claim Apostolic authority.
One question, did the Church of Christ meet and eat only once a week? :no:

Close, counts only in Horseshoes! One needs the "Whole Truth."

Shalom
 
Mickey Mouse

Mickey Mouse

Member
thedictator said:
By God's Grace, we are saved by the work of our belief. ( John 6:29 " the work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." )

By God's Grace, we are saved by our Repentance. ( Acts 17:30, Luke 13:3 Acts 2:38 )

By God's Grace, we are saved by our confession of Jesus Christ. ( Romans 10:9-10, )

By God's Grace we are saved by the Spiritual waters of Baptism. ( Acts 2:38 ) Baptism is NOT a work that I do, It is the spiritual work of the Holy Spirit cleansing my soul. I do no work at all in Baptism. All of the work is done to me. The physical work is done by God's Representative ( the Baptizer)

Romans 6:3-4-- Water baptism connects us to the spiritual work of God.

"Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? ( this spiritual act is going on at the same time as the physical act. ) We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a NEW LIFE ( saved )."
Click to expand...


It sure appears that you are saying that we are saved by works, or something that you have to do.
 
TheGreaterGame

TheGreaterGame

Active Member
thedictator said:
By God's Grace, we are saved by the work of the Fathers Plan. ( Ephesians 1:4 )

By God Grace, we are saved by the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross, and the work of the Blood of Jesus. ( Colossians 1:22 )

By God Grace, we are saved by the work of the Holy Spirit. ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 " .......to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit......." )

By Grace, we are saved by the work of the Great Commission. ( Matthew 28:18-20)

By God's Grace we all have been given the Good News by the work of a missionary, preacher, teacher, elder, parent, or just someone who gave us the word of God. ( Romans 10:13-14 " for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? ) so By God's Grace, we are saved by the work of others.

By God's Grace, we are saved by the work of our belief. ( John 6:29 " the work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." )

By God's Grace, we are saved by our Repentance. ( Acts 17:30, Luke 13:3 Acts 2:38 )

By God's Grace, we are saved by our confession of Jesus Christ. ( Romans 10:9-10, )

By God's Grace we are saved by the Spiritual waters of Baptism. ( Acts 2:38 ) Baptism is NOT a work that I do, It is the spiritual work of the Holy Spirit cleansing my soul. I do no work at all in Baptism. All of the work is done to me. The physical work is done by God's Representative ( the Baptizer)

Romans 6:3-4-- Water baptism connects us to the spiritual work of God.

"Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? ( this spiritual act is going on at the same time as the physical act. ) We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a NEW LIFE ( saved )."

By God's Grace we are raised up out of the water to a born again life or salvation.
Click to expand...

You should give Galatians 2:8-9 a fair rendering.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
By God Grace, we are saved by the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross, and the work of the Blood of Jesus.
Click to expand...
Barton Stone did not believe in the sacrificial atonement.
 
T

thedictator

A Dictator of a Coach
I do not care what Barton Stone believed, I believe what the Word of God teaches not some dead guy who lived 150 years ago.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
thedictator said:
I do not care what Barton Stone believed, I believe what the Word of God teaches not some dead guy who lived 150 years ago.
Click to expand...

Barton Stone, one of the founders of the movement of which the Churches of Christ are part, read and studied the Bible, and his conclusion was that the sacrificial atonement was not Biblical. Who was "right?" Barton Stone, or Dictator? Is there room for disagreement between you and still have both of you remain part of the "true church?" The movement Barton Stone helped to found (which includes your church) thought that there was. Therefore, if you are a part of that movement, you should care what Barton Stone believed -- even if you disagree with him.

BTW, don't you believe that Barton Stone lives now with Christ and is not, in fact, dead?
And it was at least 163 years ago that Barton Stone walked the earth.
 
joeboonda

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
One has to dismiss a ton of scripture, i.e. not believe the Bible, to believe Christ did not shed His blood for the remission of sin.
 
T

thedictator

A Dictator of a Coach
sojourner said:
Barton Stone, one of the founders of the movement of which the Churches of Christ are part, read and studied the Bible, and his conclusion was that the sacrificial atonement was not Biblical.
Click to expand...


Please give your reference for this statement.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
thedictator said:
Please give your reference for this statement.
Click to expand...

...Barton W. Stone was a moral theorist. Stone rejected penal substitution early in his ministry. His first book was a defense of the moral influence theory (1804), and when Noah Worcester published The Atoning Sacrifice: a Display of Love -- Not of Wrath (1829), he reveiwed it favorably in the Christian Messenger. Stone believed that the cross of Christ was a significant moral influence on the sinner, but had no moral effect or influence upon God. The purpose of the cross was to lead humanity to repentance; it was not to effect a change in God from wrath to grace. Stone's theological starting point was the theological axiom "God is love," and the function of the cross is to reveal God's love for sinners. Consequently, the cross does not funtion as a punishment of sin or a sign of wrath, but is God's way of leading sinners to repentance. Stone, therefore, rejected any association of "sin-bearing" with the imputation of sin or forensic justice.
The Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement, Foster, Blowers, Dunnavant & Williams; 2004 Wm. B. Eerdman's Publishing Corp.
 
T

thedictator

A Dictator of a Coach
sojourner said:
...Barton W. Stone was a moral theorist. Stone rejected penal substitution early in his ministry. His first book was a defense of the moral influence theory (1804), and when Noah Worcester published The Atoning Sacrifice: a Display of Love -- Not of Wrath (1829), he reveiwed it favorably in the Christian Messenger. Stone believed that the cross of Christ was a significant moral influence on the sinner, but had no moral effect or influence upon God. The purpose of the cross was to lead humanity to repentance; it was not to effect a change in God from wrath to grace. Stone's theological starting point was the theological axiom "God is love," and the function of the cross is to reveal God's love for sinners. Consequently, the cross does not funtion as a punishment of sin or a sign of wrath, but is God's way of leading sinners to repentance. Stone, therefore, rejected any association of "sin-bearing" with the imputation of sin or forensic justice.
The Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement, Foster, Blowers, Dunnavant & Williams; 2004 Wm. B. Eerdman's Publishing Corp.
Click to expand...




Well, I know of no one who believes this in the Churches of Christ. If Barton Stone believed this I guess he knows better know. The Restoration Movement was built on the Bible not the leaders of the movement. You ask a lot of Church of Christ members who Barton Stone was and they could not tell you. In the 30 years that I have been in the Churches of Christ and the 15 years I was in the Christian Church I have only heard his name about 3 times.
 
Mickey Mouse

Mickey Mouse

Member
thedictator said:
Well, I know of no one who believes this in the Churches of Christ. If Barton Stone believed this I guess he knows better know. The Restoration Movement was built on the Bible not the leaders of the movement. You ask a lot of Church of Christ members who Barton Stone was and they could not tell you. In the 30 years that I have been in the Churches of Christ and the 15 years I was in the Christian Church I have only heard his name about 3 times.
Click to expand...

I heard that some of the Church of Christ require water baptism for salvation. This appears to be a denial of Christ righteousness through faith (imputation). If water baptism is required, how can someone believe he is saved by grace, since God cannot save you apart from your work of water baptism?
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
thedictator said:
Well, I know of no one who believes this in the Churches of Christ. If Barton Stone believed this I guess he knows better know. The Restoration Movement was built on the Bible not the leaders of the movement. You ask a lot of Church of Christ members who Barton Stone was and they could not tell you. In the 30 years that I have been in the Churches of Christ and the 15 years I was in the Christian Church I have only heard his name about 3 times.
Click to expand...

How impudent of you to say that "he knows better now." (And how indicative of the kind of hubris that caused the Churches of Christ to separate from the Christian Churches in the early 1900's, thereby tossing aside one of the basic tenets of the movement, which was unity).

The movement was built upon the leaders' interpretation of a Biblical foundation, and you owe much to them, to their perseverance, their vision and their scholarship.

How sad that many of you do not know your heritage and the leaders that gave it to you.
 
R

Ronald

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
How impudent of you to say that "he knows better now." (And how indicative of the kind of hubris that caused the Churches of Christ to separate from the Christian Churches in the early 1900's, thereby tossing aside one of the basic tenets of the movement, which was unity).

The movement was built upon the leaders' interpretation of a Biblical foundation, and you owe much to them, to their perseverance, their vision and their scholarship.

How sad that many of you do not know your heritage and the leaders that gave it to you.
Click to expand...
Amen!

"Don't confuse him with the facts, his mind is made up!"

Shalom
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Ronald said:
Amen!

"Don't confuse him with the facts, his mind is made up!"

Shalom
Click to expand...

Another outstanding, defining feature of the movement was their commitment to scholarship and open-mindedness. In fact, Alexander Campbell was known to have changed his own mind about some fairly hard-taken stances, once he applied scholarship to the issue.
 
T

thedictator

A Dictator of a Coach
Baptism is not a work that I do it is someting that is done to me by man and God. The Greek word is a passive Verb, That means I'm not doing work. Baptism is a form of Faith. Five Greek words make up the English word Faith.

Peitho-Primary Verb-The root word to all of the faith words.
Definition: 1. to persuade 2. to be induced to believe 3. to have faith 4. to trust 5. to listen to 6. to obey ( this is physical action ) 7. to yield to ( what baptism is ) 8. to comply with


Elpis-Noun Feminine
Definition: 1. expectation 2. hope 3. cofident 4. having faith


Oligopistos-Noun
Definition: little faith


Pisteuo-Verb
Definition: 1. to think to be true 2. to be persuaded of 3. to credit 4. obtaining or doing something ( this is physical action ) 5. entrusted


Pistis-Noun
Definition: 1. Conviction of the truth 2. religious beliefs 3. faithfulness 4 Fidelity 5. assurance 6. a pledge to ( this is Baptism 1 Peter 3:21 ) 7. Proof of

Strong's Hebrew and Greek lexicon and Regent University Official Greek Lexicon

The fact is Faith is more than just belief. So Repent a part of Pisteuo and peitho (faith) confession a part of Pisteuo (faith) Baptism a part of Peitho, Pesteuo, and pistis (faith).

In the Greek faith can be and is physical action. Hebrews 11 gives us a long list of active Faith.

No one in the Church of Christ that I know believe that we are saved by works and I know 1000's of them.
 
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